20D vs 40D in color reproduction

I recently loaned my backup 20D to a friend, and we shot four basketball games together on the same court, with me using my 40D.

I had both cameras set up to shoot RAW in manual mode with apertures in the vicinity of 2.5 and shutter speed 320. ASA 800. Lenses were 35mm and 85mm. We each used both lenses.

When we got the images on a computer screen there was a big difference in color reproduction. The color in the 40D shots were brighter and richer. Whereas the 20D shots looked washed out in comparison.

Is the 40D that much better at reproducing color? If so, it's a big improvement.

Ralpho wrote in post #4605422
I recently loaned my backup 20D to a friend, and we shot four basketball games together on the same court, with me using my 40D.

I had both cameras set up to shoot RAW in manual mode with apertures in the vicinity of 2.5 and shutter speed 320. ASA 800. Lenses were 35mm and 85mm. We each used both lenses.

When we got the images on a computer screen there was a big difference in color reproduction. The color in the 40D shots were brighter and richer. Whereas the 20D shots looked washed out in comparison.

Is the 40D that much better at reproducing color? If so, it's a big improvement.

How did you process the images? You said you shot RAW. If you shot RAW + JPEG, then make sure to be looking at similarly processed RAW images, not JPEG images.

Ralpho wrote in post #4605422
I recently loaned my backup 20D to a friend, and we shot four basketball games together on the same court, with me using my 40D.

I had both cameras set up to shoot RAW in manual mode with apertures in the vicinity of 2.5 and shutter speed 320. ASA 800. Lenses were 35mm and 85mm. We each used both lenses.

When we got the images on a computer screen there was a big difference in color reproduction. The color in the 40D shots were brighter and richer. Whereas the 20D shots looked washed out in comparison.

Is the 40D that much better at reproducing color? If so, it's a big improvement.

That reflects my experiences as well with recently upgrading from a 20D to a 40D. I think most of the differences are around the way the profiles are set up on the cameras, my 20D can produce simular results with a 1 bump up in saturation and contrast in DPP.

FlyingPete wrote in post #4605440
That reflects my experiences as well with recently upgrading from a 20D to a 40D. I think most of the differences are around the way the profiles are set up on the cameras, my 20D can produce simular results with a 1 bump up in saturation and contrast in DPP.

If the camera is shooting more saturated in RAW, then it does not matter, as the profiles are applied to the JPEG images, and not the RAW file. The information is in the RAW file, but only DPP reads that information. If you were to open the file in ACR, it might be the same between the two cameras depending how ACR handles RAW files (I'm not sure if it applies anything automatically to the data from the sensor).

Either camera can produce nicely saturated images - it just depends on the post-processing. I wouldn't worry so much about the differences between the two with regard for that.

this could be the reason:

20D automatically sets pic style to neutral, it is the only one.

40D sets the pic styles to standard, which is what you describe.

but who knows, i like my 40D better than my 5D

bigcountry wrote in post #4605818
this could be the reason:

20D automatically sets pic style to neutral, it is the only one.

40D sets the pic styles to standard, which is what you describe.

but who knows, i like my 40D better than my 5D

Once again, if shooting in RAW, then this has no effect on the image. Styles are applied only to JPEGs. The data is embedded in the RAW file for DPP to read and apply automatically, but ACR discards this data and only uses the image data in the RAW file, not the processing data.

Raw converters like ACR are not optimized for every camera model. To ensure accurate colour reproduction you can get proper camera profiles here:

http://www.ejphoto.com​/acr_order_page.htm

AFAIK if you use ACR with 20D and 40D camera profiles the colour reproduction should be identical. Without the profiles installed there should be a noticeable difference.

correct me if im wrong, does the 14bits (can't remember of what) does make difference in RAW? (40D 14bit, 30D only 12bit right?)

your friend didn't know how to use the 20D because the 20D owns the 40D in IQ, speed and reliability.

ducks and hides.

SolidxSnake wrote in post #4605841
Once again, if shooting in RAW, then this has no effect on the image. Styles are applied only to JPEGs. The data is embedded in the RAW file for DPP to read and apply automatically, but ACR discards this data and only uses the image data in the RAW file, not the processing data.

BUT if he is using DPP, then when he pulls up the RAW images, it will show the images w/ a particular style applied. Is this not correct? this is how it works on my machines. Maybe I am color blind though.

SolidxSnake wrote in post #4605841
Once again, if shooting in RAW, then this has no effect on the image. Styles are applied only to JPEGs. The data is embedded in the RAW file for DPP to read and apply automatically, but ACR discards this data and only uses the image data in the RAW file, not the processing data.

Depends on the Raw converter: DPP will apply the camera settings as 'default'.

bigcountry wrote in post #4608246
BUT if he is using DPP, then when he pulls up the RAW images, it will show the images w/ a particular style applied. Is this not correct? this is how it works on my machines. Maybe I am color blind though.

You're right

I own both cameras and, IMO, the 40D's colors are much better, even with the Neutral picture style. I'm very, very pleased with the 40.

René Damkot wrote in post #4608423
Depends on the Raw converter: DPP will apply the camera settings as 'default'.


You're right

Correct, but if using ACR, that doesn't happen. I stated this twice before in the thread. And of course, in DPP, you could set the styles to the same thing instead of picking whatever the camera does automatically.

The best way to test this is to set the 20D to Parameter 2 (everything at 0), and the 40D to.... neutral I believe (I don't have a 40D so I don't know what style on it is equivalent to Parameter 2 of the 20D).

SolidxSnake wrote in post #4608932
Correct, but if using ACR, that doesn't happen. I stated this twice before in the thread.

Sorry, missed that bit