How much to charge?

Hope I am in the right forum.

I started out shooting digital photos as a hobby, family holidays, social club events, etc. Pretty soon people wanted more and more copies for framing (not my family). Well with the cost of inks, paper, and not to mention my time I started charging per picture, 4x6, 5x7 8x10, etc. My name began circulating among friends, and more folks wanted to "hire" me. I recently did a photo shoot for a beauty salon along with their fashion show. I took quite a few shots of the models, as well as print them and put a book together for the owner of the salon. When it was completed, I felt like I undercharged them (didn't tell them that since no price was established in the beginning). My question is how should you determine what prices to charge, considering time, supplies, etc. This is all very new to me, this pricing thing. I want to provide a good product, but I am by no means a pro. Sorry for dragging this post out, but I will take any input I can get from you forum members.

Thanks for reading,
Jeff

Most professional photographers begin their pricing with something based on time. Like, $xxx for one hour, $yyy for two hours, $zzz for all day. That is a straight time fee. A pro-in-training photographer might want to cut down the fee to a small fraction of what the real pro charges.

Assuming that you are shooting digitally, you won't be charging an extra fee for film or film processing. So, we will skip over that.

Sometimes photographers have to add a time fee for "creative work". If you have to take a good image and manipulate it specially for a customer, then that is creative time that may cost more or less than photographic time. I figure that basic editing is free (fix exposure, sharpen, etc.).

Then printing or other output is a separate charge. If you are having commercial prints done by some outside agency, then generally you have to take that cost and mark it up to the customer, partly because of the time you spend handling the order. If you are having your own inkjet prints offered, then it becomes a little more complicated, but the cost should be somewhere in the same ballpark of what the commercial prints would have cost. Sometimes there are other "output" charges, such as time for making up a photo album or mounting, or that stuff. Basically, you want to separate out the individual costs. However, you might want to take all of those separate costs and then tell the customer that you have lumped all of that together into a flat fee.

Sometimes photographers offer a discount for returning customers, but that is generally small.

---Bob Gross---

bob hit some basic points.

as a comercial photographer what you're selling is not "time" or "prints". the pricing structure is calculated as follows for different scenarios:

Portrait studio - enlargements for personal viewing / hanging on the living room wall. usually priced per print, depending on size of print. some photogs charge a "sitting fee" to cover the cost of shoot if no prints are bought... but then if your cust doesn't like the work enough you've got problems. i don't charge a sitting fee (because i know i'm good and they will like it and will buy from experience) prints are priced like so - lab cost in parenthesis(sp?):

wallets (10): $15.00 (5.00)
5x7 (2): $25 (2.70)
8x10 (1): $30 (2.75)
10x13 (1): $60 (4.00)
16x20 (1): $175 (15.00)

as you can see, the pricing turns over an average sale of around $100. ocasionally upwards of $500 if the client can afford 16x20 and such.

wedding / event photograhy - a defined period of coverage plus some prints at a flat fee, extra prints or extended time of coverage extra fee.
this really depends on the job, but for weddings figure your COST * 2 + $100/hr = what to charge. the only variable i see is how much you will charge an hour for your time. as a frame of refference: in NYC metro area (where i'm at) journalistic weddings are $2000 for coverage & proofs. if the couple wants an album the prices range from $3000-8000 on average. some people in New York City charge 15,000 per wedding - but they provide a lot of stuff for that, and their quality is top notch.... these fish are rare.

advertising / catalog / beauty - provides images for advertising. selling clothes (fashion), selling makeup / hair products (beauty), selling service. this one is tricky as the prices depend on your market. basic pricing works like so: your "Creative fee" as a photographer.... your tallent + your expenses (film / equipment / POST PRODUCTION (don't over estimate this - airbrushing images for hair salon advertisement is a lot of work - for which you or your retoucher needs to be paid) / equipment rental, etc. + USAGE FEE. the difficult part is "your talent" and "usage fee". for simplification consider "day rate" + "usage fee" as the model. day rate is what you charge for everything to produce the images. in my area the cheapest is $600 / day. this seems like a lot until you start adding up things like studio+equipment+your rent+your car+your kid's college tuition, etc. after that you add on "usage fee" - this is when it really gets hairy. "usage fee" is dependent on what your client will use the image for.

example: a local machine shop calls you up and wants you to shoot bolts they make for their yearly catalog. you figure it's an easy gig - one day, in table-top studio, same lighting evry shot - easy. figure they've got 120 different bolts they make. you think and say $5 / shot = 120*5= $600 - your day rate. you're shooting digital and you write this off as 99% profit. so they hire you and use the images in a catalog. with the nice and crisp images (that you shot for them) and being the only supplier in the area of such unusual bolts they make $5,000,000 (that's 5 M) from sales of the said bolts in the next year. the question is - are you still happy with your $0 usage fee?

the example is purely theoretical, and all the numbers are maid up - but it could be real.

the reason you price portrait and wedding and comercial assignments differently is that you use different models. one model provides a model of valuing images at the cost with some mark up, the other a model of valuing images according to the value provided to the client.

you need to understand these principles if you're going to do any advertising or catalog work - regardless of your location.

lengthy but hopefully helpfull.

Just one thing to add to bob's: Digital Photo Pro ran an article just about that - charging for digital photography. Postprocessing is supoussed to take place of film and development costs - ahter all you spend some time copying and brushing up the pics.

kufel - you're absolutely correct. infact, depending on the job, it often costs more to do a digital job than film once you figure in the cost of "computer time".

fee should include the cost of necessary equipment - which costs a lot to keep up to date. in doubt? just compare the cost of a digital body vs. film body... and their respective lifecycles. add to that a modern computer with a backup system, retouching and color calibration tools and a quality monitor, and someone competent enough in photoshop to do retouching past "levels" at $30/hr - and you're way past doing digital work for free if you want to stay in business and be profitable.

i bill my clients at $100 for digital editing per final image. once explained why this needs to be done and pointing out that $100 in comparison to their budget for printing is "small and necessary" i have yet to have a client refuse and just take the "raw" file.

JW: You got lots of advice here from some pros. But it seems that you are a hobbyist getting requests for prices for prints and the odd photo shoot. I do the same thing, as a hobbyist. I don't do shoots--but I sell some of my prints (as fine art) and have just sold 20 or so over the last few years--all through word of mouth.

I use something I use in my consulting business, called flinch pricing. When someone asks me "how much..." I give them a number. If they flinch, I negotiate with them... If they don't, that's what I charge. Right now, I get about $190 for a 11 X 14 (matted but not framed). I've inched up the pricing from $130 and no one has flinched yet! I'm not going to quit my day job, but it keeps me in toys...

All I can say for now is WOW. Kufel and Leony, you are so correct about time spent post processing. When I did the photo album for the beauty salon, I spent three days putting it together. This in addition to the seven hours I spent at the salon and fashion show. They are also using the album to show clients the various hair styles that the salon can offer. I did leave pages of the photos along with a pricing sheet for customers that wanted to order various sets of prints. That whole shoot was definitely a learning experience. I guess you have to crawl before you can walk. I just don't want to crawl while others are walking at my expense Thanks all for your inputs. Points I will surely apply.

Jeff

Leony didn't use these terms, but if you need to study up on it, study up on "cost-based pricing" versus "value-based pricing" versus "market-based pricing". Most full-scale photographers understand most of this. However, some of the guys working their way up from the bottom are just scratching the surface of pricing their work.

Is it photo prints that you are providing, or is it a skilled photo service?

---Bob Gross---

Steven, I was answering the previous replies when I saw yours. Funny, I did the flinch thing and it works. I did my share of negotiating, and I do have some set prices for each size that I print, but after seeing the responses I was getting to what people thought of my work, I am going to raise prices to reflect some sort of happy negotiating medium.

Thanks again Steve.

Bob,

I am providing photo prints of various sizes, to included 4x6, 5x7, 8x10, wallet sizes. If an album is requested, that is something I have to negotiate with the customer.

Bob mentioned 3 basic pricing schemes--cost-plus, value and market-based (and the last two are largely the same thing). Keep in mind that when people buy your services they not only do so because they value your talent, they also value the event they want you and your talent to capture! And the degree to which they value the event will vary with the event. Like parents will likely pay more for you to capture their kids' performances at a little league final match than at a regular game.

You know what cost-based pricing is. If you add up your own expenses and then add a profit margin, you end up with a cost-based price.

Value-based pricing applies to what the customer perceives as value. If you get a shot of the customer's sedan in the driveway, the customer would likely treat that photo with low value (because he could probably take it himself). But the same size print of the customer's daughter in the middle of a wedding ceremony, he would perceive to have much higher value, especially if you were the only photographer. Once-in-a-lifetime shot, etc.

Market-based pricing gets messy. What are other competing photographers charging for the same thing? If everybody else of equal skill lowers their price to try to gain business, then you might have to also. That is the nature of the free market.

---Bob Gross---

Excellent info guys. The tips just keep rolling in and they are greatly appreciated

Jeff

Right, Bob--but a huge component of market-based pricing is perceived value. Unless current providers are completely ignorant and have made their services a commodity in the market, the market price will be a reflection of the perceived value of the service.

Pricing is a funny thing. Price too high and people can't afford you. Don't price high enough and they think you will have poor quality. But by focusing (no pun intended) on the value you provide, you can take price out of the customer's decision process.

If you want to charge MORE than the competition, you need to convince customers that you are worth it--that you provide value they won't get elsewhere. And some free advice (I don't usually do this!), customers in the portrait market will trade price for personal, attentive service.