Gary Fong vs Better Bounce Card vs Sto-Phen Omnibouncer

I need a all-around flash solution both out door and indoors. I've played with Omni-Bouncer and self-made bouncer card. The result is OK, but not great. Basically, the flash photos seem to exaggerate skin problems. The resulting photo seems to have many red spots in the skin and basically un-natural. A photo of the same person in late afternoon sun is much better. There must be something with the flash that make the look very un-desirable. How do I solve those problems? Is Gary Fong a little better?

dr_who wrote in post #4732259
I need a all-around flash solution both out door and indoors. I've played with Omni-Bouncer and self-made bouncer card. The result is OK, but not great. Basically, the flash photos seem to exaggerate skin problems. The resulting photo seems to have many red spots in the skin and basically un-natural. A photo of the same person in late afternoon sun is much better. There must be something with the flash that make the look very un-desirable. How do I solve those problems? Is Gary Fong a little better?

No! Different yes, better - no, worse - maybe. I would suspect that most folks have a couple of flash solutions they use. I like a bracket and the Lumiquest ProMax system for all-around flexibility. I have an LSII and on occasion will use it around the house where the walls are white and the ceiling is normal hight. And that's about the only place it works at all.

And after all that - I have not really noticed a definite change in skin conditions using flash. It might be a different color temp is all and I correct that with white balance.

Can you post an example of the issue you are having? With exif.

dr_who wrote in post #4732259
I need a all-around flash solution both out door and indoors.

None of the 'tupperware' "diffusers" are worth a darn in larger venues or outdoors. The only package I know of that is versatile enough to handle most situations is what I use - the LumiQuest Promax System.

I usually use mine with the flash on a bracket so the flash is always above the lens and fairly high so it's away from the axis of the lens.

SkipD wrote in post #4732357
None of the 'tupperware' "diffusers" are worth a darn in larger venues or outdoors. The only package I know of that is versatile enough to handle most situations is what I use - the LumiQuest Promax System.

I usually use mine with the flash on a bracket so the flash is always above the lens and fairly high so it's away from the axis of the lens.

As I understand, the promax system is basically a "better bouncer card"(found somewhere on the internet) but built professionally, right?

dr_who wrote in post #4732417
As I understand, the promax system is basically a "better bouncer card"(found somewhere on the internet) but built professionally, right?

It's actually a LOT more than that.

1) You can use it to bounce 20% of the light toward the subject and the rest off the ceiling.

2) You can mount the white insert and have a large bounce card (your thought from above)

3) You can mount the silver or gold inserts for different colors and differences in specular highlights.

4) You can do any of the above and put the translucent panel over the front for a mini-softbox effect.

The whole thing stores in a very convenient and easy to store wallet.

SkipD wrote in post #4732474
It's actually a LOT more than that.

1) You can use it to bounce 20% of the light toward the subject and the rest off the ceiling.

2) You can mount the white insert and have a large bounce card (your thought from above)

3) You can mount the silver or gold inserts for different colors and differences in specular highlights.

4) You can do any of the above and put the translucent panel over the front for a mini-softbox effect.

The whole thing stores in a very convenient and easy to store wallet.

Nice! I guess I will be looking into buying one of those. Thank you for your suggestion!

dr_who wrote in post #4732417
As I understand, the promax system is basically a "better bouncer card"(found somewhere on the internet) but built professionally, right?

The "better bounce card" is certainly a versatile, economical and effective tool when used in the right situations. But if you look closely at the Lumiquest Promax System and similar products (check their website), you'll see that they are positioned directly in front of the flash head so that they can catch all of its light. Bounce cards mounted to the back of the flash head will only catch part of it.

This difference is significant when there is no ceiling to bounce off.

Question for your Curtis..I was watching the weddings on the WE channel and I saw a photgrapher with a flash on a bracket but it was fixed at a 45 degree angle and had a white index card rubber banded to the back of it but he was using it inside and outdoors, fixed at 45 degrees everywhere he went with the white card on the back..what effect would he have had??I saw another using the lightsphere outdoors and he looked like a bum and the bride was so upset at her pictures....I love watching other photographers and what they use.Another question. I have used the lumiquest soft box on my flash with bracket before but not at a wide angle like 24mm..would it spread the light out to cover that?Thank you. I love reading your posts, a wealth of good info.

Shooting wrote in post #4735408
Question for your Curtis..I was watching the weddings on the WE channel and I saw a photgrapher with a flash on a bracket but it was fixed at a 45 degree angle and had a white index card rubber banded to the back of it but he was using it inside and outdoors, fixed at 45 degrees everywhere he went with the white card on the back..what effect would he have had??I saw another using the lightsphere outdoors and he looked like a bum and the bride was so upset at her pictures....I love watching other photographers and what they use.Another question. I have used the lumiquest soft box on my flash with bracket before but not at a wide angle like 24mm..would it spread the light out to cover that?Thank you. I love reading your posts, a wealth of good info.

One trick ponies! Photographers who have only one mode of operation in spite of the fact that that is not always appropriate! Reminds me of guys who would always use a flat blade screwdriver even to drive a Phillips head screw! Based upon the many posts on POTN about 'how do I shoot a wedding', it is obvious that many, many weddings are covered by rank amateur first-timers, not true wedding pros.

Aiming at 45 degrees upward is for use of ceiling bounce, and is pointless outdoors...it only wastes light and drains your flash batteries faster!!! The bounce card is intended to provide catchlight in the subject eyes when the main illumination is from the bounce, to provide some 'life' in the eyes.

The Lightsphere is similar in concept to the 45 degree flash with white card...bounce and catchlight. Used outdoors, this is no better than the cheaper solution (which are both useless outdoors)

These guys should have merely put away their light modifier for outdoors, rather than being one-trick ponies! So do NOT necessarily accept what you see at a wedding as right, since you could be simply watching a first-timer! Or you could be watching someone who is unaware that there is a better way to do something in a particular situation!


I like softboxes...although the light might not be as soft as ceiling bounce, I can always use it. Yes, using it outdoors diminishes the distance that the light can reach, but I use quite powerful Metz flashes and it has not been a limitation for me...if it was, I'd pull off the Wescott Micro Apollo softbox! Using a wide angle coverage does help fill the softbox more uniformly.

Shooting wrote in post #4735408
I saw a photgrapher with a flash on a bracket but it was fixed at a 45 degree angle and had a white index card rubber banded to the back of it but he was using it inside and outdoors, fixed at 45 degrees everywhere he went with the white card on the back..what effect would he have had?

The effect of this is to show the world that he doesn't understand light. I love the index card/rubber band method, and recommend it often, for ceiling bounce. The card just throws a little light forward to fill shadows and create catchlights. The optimum flash head angle depends on the ceiling height and distance to subject. Outdoors, all it does is waste light (and batteries).

You can't light the entire universe with a hotshoe flash unit. The only effective way to use flash outdoors is to leave it naked so it lights your subject, not everything else. People who don't understand that shouldn't be shooting weddings.

Sorry, you only get two questions per post.

I have used the Lumiquest Softbox with lenses as short as 17mm (on a 20D) with satisfactory results. But you don't need to take my word for it. Just shoot a blank wall or ceiling with it, and look at the levels throughout the image in Photoshop. Shoot the same thing without the softbox and with the flash properly zoomed for the lens, and compare the results.

Ok thanks for the response. I have the 580ex II and what I\'ve done in the past was meter the background and set exposure for that for my fill flash but I am always open for better things I can do on the fly for some of the fast action things.I\'ve tried the flipit indoors and out but limited success for anything of any distance further than 9 ft...just didn\'t like the look of the bounce lighting indoors...I\'d use a softbox but for the limited distance indoors with it it may not be worth it.

Thank you Curtis, I will. One more and I\\\'ll leave you alone for awhile. Is it best to use the softbox on a bracket or on camera..if on camera will the verticle side shadows be there and very pronounced?

Flash on bracket is useful for direct lighting, less so for indirect (bounce). Side shadow will be non-existent if the flash is always CENTERED over the axis of the lens. Some brackets keep flash centered, regardless of Landscape or Portrait orientation. Many do not do a good job of this and serve only to elevate the flash (reasonable for redeye reduction) but not keep it centered above the lens, so side shadow exists.

Shooting wrote in post #4735999
Thank you Curtis, I will. One more and I\\\'ll leave you alone for awhile. Is it best to use the softbox on a bracket or on camera..if on camera will the verticle side shadows be there and very pronounced?

You'll find that Wilt and I agree quite a bit, because he is very smart.

A flash bracket will serve the same purpose of hiding shadows behind your subject, whether you're using a softbox or not. Shooting vertical without a bracket will still give you side shadows, even with a softbox. The shadows will just have softer edges because of the larger light source.

And I often prefer to use a bracket even when bouncing the flash, because it's quicker to rotate the camera in the bracket than to reposition the flash head when I change orientation.

Curtis, you were kidding when you said that I am 'very smart' ?!