action shooting.....

so i'm trying out my new 40D and i'll admit i'm not a pro. i'm taking some shots of my kid playing hockey (inside, light pretty good). i strat by setting the camera in full auto mode in the action setting just to see what settings the camera will use. i planned on then comparing those shots to some other shots taken in P mode or Tv mode. i can't understand why the shutter speed in many shots was set at 1/60 (ISO @ 800). the photo was in focus but the action was smeered. why would the auto mode select this shutter speed? seems way too slow for action. what good is full auto mode? another question is, should smoeone like me with not too much expierence plan on shooting in Tv mode and select my shutter speed say around 1/250 and let the camera select the rest ?(decent inside light, lens f/4-5.6). not sure i'm ready to attempt any full manual shots just yet.

thanks in advance for any tips.

jeff.

When you let the camera do the thinking, this is often the result. Try reading "Understanding Exposure" by Bryan Peterson to get a better handle on Manual mode.

I'm guessing your camera picked that speed because that was the exposure required. It most likely went to your largest aperature and adjusted the speed for exposure. I went to the Auto show with my 40D and thought the lighting was pretty good, but with my lens I still had a hard time getting good shots.

It's the only sure way to get the exposure that you need. People will suggest Tv and using EC (Exposure Compensation) to adjust. So you're guestimating an exposure based on what the geek at Canon guestimated when he programmed the meter?

Try this next time: First set the f-stop & shutter speed you need. Then adjust the ISO. Need an exposure crutch?

Sports Shooting Tutorials and Advice

Q&A Session with Gmen: Sports Photography

Select Shutter Priority Mode or TV mode. Select 200s. Up the ISO as high as you could to maintain correct exposure. Just fire away. If your aperture value begins to blink, you are not getting enough light. Your shot would be underexposed. For wild life, you would need at least 500s, BTW.

jag182 wrote in post #4775982
so i'm trying out my new 40D and i'll admit i'm not a pro. i'm taking some shots of my kid playing hockey (inside, light pretty good). i strat by setting the camera in full auto mode in the action setting just to see what settings the camera will use. i planned on then comparing those shots to some other shots taken in P mode or Tv mode. i can't understand why the shutter speed in many shots was set at 1/60 (ISO @ 800). the photo was in focus but the action was smeered. why would the auto mode select this shutter speed? seems way too slow for action. what good is full auto mode? another question is, should smoeone like me with not too much expierence plan on shooting in Tv mode and select my shutter speed say around 1/250 and let the camera select the rest ?(decent inside light, lens f/4-5.6). not sure i'm ready to attempt any full manual shots just yet.

thanks in advance for any tips.

jeff.

I approach it differently. I use AV mode in conditions like these simply because I know the lens is going to need to be wide open. I then adjust my ISO until I get a reasonable shutter speed. If the speed is still slow like you have been getting, I then choose the angle I shoot carefully. Motion impacrs images much more when the action goes across the screen rather than towards you. Therefor, in you situation, if I can't get the shutter speed fast enough, I will move to the end of the rink where the action is coming at me. This will minimize the impact of motion in the shot. You can get away with some reall slow shutter speeds (1/200 or 250) with action coming and going in your direction. Action moving across the plane will need usually 1/400 or 1/500 to get reasonable freezing. Hockey stick swings are very fast, and to stop those you need even highter. Just pick your shots and angles carefully and you'll surprised what you can squeze out.

See, what did I tell you! They are both right! The thing is, that they already know what they're doing & they know how to adjust & what to expect when they do it.
You don't, which is why I still recommend starting with M so outside influences like subject brightness, background brightness, & metering mode in your specific situation become constants that you can ignore while you learn.
Maybe you missed this post on exposure differences depending on where the cam is pointed in the link I gave you above: Post #47

If you must use Tv or Av, there's a lot of good info in this: Photozone: Light Metering - Technique

So I still recommend that you read the info in Need an exposure crutch? & try it out inside your home in a reasonable amount if light. Then re-read it & try again.

Be sure & let us know how the shoot at the rink works out, too!

Indoor f4-f5.6 lens are too slow. You need atleast f2.8. So in your case, select the widest aperture your lens has (most probably f5.6), crank the ISO to 1600 or more and see what shutter speed you get.

PhotosGuy wrote in post #4779894
See, what did I tell you! They are both right! The thing is, that they already know what they're doing & they know how to adjust & what to expect when they do it.
You don't, which is why I still recommend starting with M so outside influences like subject brightness, background brightness, & metering mode in your specific situation become constants that you can ignore while you learn.

So I still recommend that you read the info in Need an exposure crutch? & try it out inside your home in a reasonable amount if light. Then re-read it & try again.

Be sure & let us know how the shoot at the rink works out, too!

And what I forgot to put in there is once I have identified the right exposure - I switch to manual with those settings. Like mentioned, way too many variables (uniform color, skin tone, background) to mess you up staying in any automatic mode. The slight differences you get from the cycling lights can be fixed later - a lot easier to address then the camera guessing exposure wrong.

So yeah... study up on it. I can sort of guess exposure by just looking at it the situation ( I still verify though) , but that is from doing it over many many years. It will become second nature to you pretty quick too.

bobbyz wrote in post #4779980
Indoor f4-f5.6 lens are too slow. You need atleast f2.8. So in your case, select the widest aperture your lens has (most probably f5.6), crank the ISO to 1600 or more and see what shutter speed you get.

Yes and no. 100% of the time true in High School gyms. 70% the time true in Division II and III college gyms. 50% true in pro and and bigger division I universities. There are times when even f2.8 isn't near fast enough to get the job done, even at ISO 1600. Other times, depending on the shot you are looking for, you can get away with f4. But even these rules are getting stretched with the crazy high ISO's some of these newer cameras are capable of. I use FujiFilm P/S cameras and the most recent P/S they released is supposedly capable of ISO 12800. Now it is probably crap at that, but that probably also means 1600 and 3200 are reasonable now in a P/S - something unimaginable just a year ago. So old rules of thumb are being broken right and left.

But generally speaking, your comment is a very good guide to work by. An F2 or 1.8 really is the preferred lens, and many of them can be picked up relatively cheap.

Croasdail wrote in post #4781163
Yes and no. 100% of the time true in High School gyms. 70% the time true in Division II and III college gyms. 50% true in pro and and bigger division I universities. There are times when even f2.8 isn't near fast enough to get the job done, even at ISO 1600. Other times, depending on the shot you are looking for, you can get away with f4. But even these rules are getting stretched with the crazy high ISO's some of these newer cameras are capable of. I use FujiFilm P/S cameras and the most recent P/S they released is supposedly capable of ISO 12800. Now it is probably crap at that, but that probably also means 1600 and 3200 are reasonable now in a P/S - something unimaginable just a year ago. So old rules of thumb are being broken right and left.

But generally speaking, your comment is a very good guide to work by. An F2 or 1.8 really is the preferred lens, and many of them can be picked up relatively cheap.

So, from what I've read, the Number One Required Lens for reliable indoor sports shooting is the 85 f/1.8. It seems like every discussion about indoor sports struggles must inevitably point to this lens! I don't own this lens, but at the point at which I endeavor to do this kind of shooting, I will rush to buy it -- failure is not an option!!

The second lens which reportedly should be in the bag is more spendy, the 70-200 f/2.8. Go to a pro sports event and you'll see the photogs switching cameras between probably the 85 and probably the 70-200 for the farther shots.

Like most photography specialties, you have to pay the piper, and you get what you pay for!

Have a good time!

And, if you shoot RAW, you can probably squeeze out another 1/2 f-stop.

Shooting in available darkness:
Some Volly Ball Tournament Tests **56K Warning!**

When to begin shooting in RAW?

Now I'm sure that someone will still want to use Tv & Av because they see it as easier because the light is/might be changing.
FIRST: Set your ISO one stop higher. Remembering how you did that, put the camera up to your eye & change it back again.
Do this 5 or 6 times. When you get used to it, it's pretty fast, isn't it?

SECOND: Holding your camera at your waist as if you're looking at a possible shot & the sun goes behind a cloud, start raising the cam to your eye & still without taking your eye off the subject, change to a higher ISO. That's pretty fast too, isn't it?

THIRD: Now, with that in mind, read about metering modes & EC (Exposure Compensation) in TMR Design's excellent 360+ post thread Understanding your camera’s built-in metering system.

When you're finished with it, decide for yourself which method is faster & easier.

There are times that I'll use Tv or Av.
First I've been known to bump the mode dial from manual, so it's sort of a fail safe.
Second, if I expect that something unplanned might happen.
For instance, at an air show, I might set Av to f/16 for more depth of field on a static shot. And I'd set Tv to 1/125 for better prop blur. When I have the time though, I prefer manual.