Let's get anal about white balance with flash

Curtis N wrote in post #4809002
I think you'll find a world of difference.

I and others have done some simple tests correcting both RAW and JPEGs shot with the wrong white balance setting. JPEG is decent, but RAW is awesome.

I don't doubt that, Curtis. I just want to be able to show how good the RAW recovery is (and how much it still falls short of being able to offset capture with off-balance lighting). I do so little in JPEG now, preferring RAW, that last night's exercise of trying to balance a JPEG was a new experience!

Just for fun, I decided to test my strobes (one of them at least).

I used a Hensel Integra Pro Plus 500WS monolight. I shot it through a Photoflex Large Lightdome softbox with both diffusers in place. I'll reshoot again without the softbox, but for the first test I used the softbox. I'll also test at least one other strobe and one other softbox.

I shot three frames for each power setting. All shots were of a stuido Whibal. White Balance was set in Adobe Lightroom.

Results (Color Temp/tint):

Full power -
6050/+5
6050/+5
6050/+5

1/2 Power -
5900/+3
5900/+3
5900/+3

1/4 Power -
5850/+2
5800/+2
5800/+1

1/8 Power -
5700/+0
5700/+0
5700/+0

1/16 Power -
5600/-3
5600/-3
5600/-3

1/32 power -
5500/-4
5500/-5
5500/-4


From this test it shows that even my German Hensels show a color and tint shift over the power range. On the plus side, they seem to be pretty consistent at any specific power setting.

So, from full power to the lowest setting, there is a color temp shift of 550 degrees Kelvin, and a tint shift of 10 points.

Brian, your findings are consistent with what I have found for most monolights. That's why I wondered if there were any that didn't vary from full power to 1/16 or 1/32 power since that seems to be the complaint of several people here about the Alienbees.

Results with a 7" reflector (same method as above)

full:
5800/0
5800/0
5800/0

1/2:
5650/-2
5600/-2
5600/-2

1/4:
5500/-3
5500/-3
5500/-4

1/8:
5450/-5
5450/-6
5450/-6

1/16:
5450/-8
5450/-9
5400/-7

1/32:
5400/-10
5400/-9
5350/-9


Interesting how the reflector changed the performance. I'll do another strobe, the reflector and a second softbox tomorrow. For now, I have to break down the studio for the night.

OK, here are the same three shots previously posted, except these are color balanced and RAW converted from Lightroom.

Excellent! Thank you Wilt and Brian.

magicmikey wrote in post #4807732
I'm not arguing for or against Alienbees but I still haven't seen anyone showing any strobe with consistent color temp. at reduced power. I'm sure some of the highest end strobes are carefully controlled but I keep seeing complaints about it without anyone indicating a light that is better.

Here is an example I PM'd RichNY about:
http://forums.dpreview​.com …orum=1025&messa​ge=7891229
It is an older post but both the Profoto and Elinchrom lights are available and they both showed a similar drop in color temperature at reduced light outputs.

There are other variables in color temperature from a strobe. As the flash tube ages, it will start to shift colors. Adding an umbrella or softbox will shift the color. Shooting through the umbrella will shift the color differently than reflecting off the umbrella.

To me, a bigger issue is whether or not the strobe consistently puts out the same amount of light from shot to shot when you haven't changed any power settings and whether the color temperature is the same from shot to shot when you haven't changed the settings.

Michael

ALL lights change, to a certain degree, as the power drops. It's normal. The problem is that from flash to flash at lower power, the bees change. You can leave it at 1/32nd, but from shot to shot WB will be different. This isn't the case with Profotos, Elinchroms etc.

It's all fun and games until somebody busts out with a Macbeth color chart. Whibals and M&Ms are one thing...but macbeth charts are the heavy artillery

transcend wrote in post #4813754
ALL lights change, to a certain degree, as the power drops. It's normal. The problem is that from flash to flash at lower power, the bees change. You can leave it at 1/32nd, but from shot to shot WB will be different. This isn't the case with Profotos, Elinchroms etc.

I agree that inconsistencies from flash to flash is a bigger problem (see my earlier post in this same thread), although I haven't worked with Alienbees to know that this occurs with those strobes. If that happens with Alienbees (and I do recall seeing some posts about that elsewhere), then that is a legitimate complaint. It's just the complaint about the Alienbees changing color temperature by 400 - 500 degrees kelvin when you lower there power is nothing unusual.

Michael

Wilt wrote in post #4813226
So I will withdraw the caution previously concluded from trying to color balance badly lit shots, but that applies solely to RAW files, but I still would not try to do so with JPG files if color fidelity is at all important.

Try this plug in with the jpg files:
http://www.pictureflow​.com/forum/showthread.​php?t=7782
It does a much better job than anything else I have found.

Wilt wrote in post #4813226
OK, here are the same three shots previously posted, except these are color balanced and RAW converted from Lightroom.

[]http://i69.photobucket​.com …/wiltonw/colorb​al3.jpg[/]

The results are much, much better than attempting the same thing with JPEG files from the camera. There are very subtle differences visible in a few of the color patches, but overally I am quite pleased with recovering extreme color balance errors induced by the light source (filtered flash, in this case)

So I will withdraw the caution previously concluded from trying to color balance badly lit shots, but that applies solely to RAW files, but I still would not try to do so with JPG files if color fidelity is at all important.

Wilt, although the results are better, I would still caution everybody from making a conclusion based on your latest test images. Why? Look at the window borders of the test shots above and those of the JPEG shots. Unless you can make them all have the same color blue, there's no telling how much of the color discrepancy is due to whatever was changing the colors of the window frames and how much of it was due to the strobeor flash itself. Or is the one window frame darker because that window has been selected while the others have not been?

This is the reason I haven't got the bees or any other cheap strobes.

I was going to, but about... 2 years ago I went around testing the lights.

I tried 3 profoto packs, 2 elinchromes, bees, white lightings, hensels and photogenics, broncolor and some others.

Basically, broncolor is mindboggingly stable. It's the best.

Then goes profoto and elinchrom, which is about 10-15% less stable than broncolor.

Hensels and photogenics are on the same level, can't be compared to profoto.

Bees are almost as bad as "opus" and chinese stuff.

Some people don't care. Some people don't seem to notice. Some people equate baul buff to Jesus or Muhammad ibn ‘Abd Allāh and are ready to defend it to death.

Most repeat what they hear from others. "get the bees, get the bees" having never tried anything else.

It's horses for courses and you need to understand what the higher priced products offer, to be able to justify those prices. You also have to NEED those features.

I've been using 30 dollar headphones for the last 2 years. Some of my audiophile friends think me a moron and tried to tell me something about quality, but I don't care.

Same thing with cheap strobes.

DocFrankenstein wrote in post #4814887
Some people don't care. Some people don't seem to notice. Some people equate baul buff to Jesus or Muhammad ibn ‘Abd Allāh and are ready to defend it to death.

... and some people understand that:
1) Factors other than the lights can affect color temperature.
2) A WhiBal card or other good reference target and a RAW converter are usually required to get truly color-correct images, regardless of the lights.

This thread has certainly lived up to its title.

DocFrankenstein wrote in post #4814887
Basically, broncolor is mindboggingly stable. It's the best.

Then goes profoto and elinchrom, which is about 10-15% less stable than broncolor.

Hensels and photogenics are on the same level, can't be compared to profoto.

Bees are almost as bad as "opus" and chinese stuff.

Can you elaborate on "stable"? Are you referring to power output from shot to shot or are you referring to color temperature from shot to shot or both?

DocFrankenstein wrote in post #4814887
This is the reason I haven't got the bees or any other cheap strobes.

I was going to, but about... 2 years ago I went around testing the lights.

I tried 3 profoto packs, 2 elinchromes, bees, white lightings, hensels and photogenics, broncolor and some others.

Basically, broncolor is mindboggingly stable. It's the best.

Then goes profoto and elinchrom, which is about 10-15% less stable than broncolor.

Hensels and photogenics are on the same level, can't be compared to profoto.

Bees are almost as bad as "opus" and chinese stuff.

Some people don't care. Some people don't seem to notice. Some people equate baul buff to Jesus or Muhammad ibn ‘Abd Allāh and are ready to defend it to death.

Most repeat what they hear from others. "get the bees, get the bees" having never tried anything else.

It's horses for courses and you need to understand what the higher priced products offer, to be able to justify those prices. You also have to NEED those features.

I've been using 30 dollar headphones for the last 2 years. Some of my audiophile friends think me a moron and tried to tell me something about quality, but I don't care.

Same thing with cheap strobes.

Pictures? I'm interested in the tests and comparisons.