Choices for the ulitmate newb

I recently got into digital photograpy under the guise that I may be able to take decent pictures of our children someday. While this may never happen, I am looking for some advise to up my chances.

I would like to be able to take some studio style pictures of our sons and my wife, but I currently have no lighting whatsoever. I also wouldn't mind using the light in non-studio ways.

So I was looking at two different options....either the AB beginner bee (http://www.alienbees.c​om/beginner.html) or the starving student kit ala stobist (http://www.mpex.com/pa​ge.htm?PG=Strobist%20K​its for the Xti). I was leaning to the strobist kit with maybe and extra vivitar flash and umbrella.

I have zero experience with off camera flash and minimal with on camera.

I am also a little hesitant to go with the vivitars as I will lose the E-TTL functionality of a canon flash. So I could comprimise and go with maybe a 420 and one vivitar...

Also, I can still use the vivitars on camera without E-TTL right?

Any help would be most appreciated. And thanks for the great forum...I have learned so much already.

EDIT: Please ignore my typos

You dont need ETTL. Learn to use manual on your flash. Also it not a good idea to put the Vivitar on your camera hotshoe.

I use the 430 and Vivitar 285. Using the 285 is much easier (for me) off shoe. Both sets you shown are good starters. Do you want portability or moving up to more studio work? You can do great things with both. There are no wrong choices there.

slimninj4 wrote in post #4810004
You dont need ETTL. Learn to use manual on your flash. Also it not a good idea to put the Vivitar on your camera hotshoe.

I use the 430 and Vivitar 285. Using the 285 is much easier (for me) off shoe. Both sets you shown are good starters. Do you want portability or moving up to more studio work? You can do great things with both. There are no wrong choices there.

Why? I thought you could go on shoe with the lower voltage of the newer 285.

I am not sure about the studio vs portability. I am interested in portability because of what I have seen and read on strobist, but in reality that may never happen since this is just a hobby for me.

Do you guys have any idea how many stops difference there is between the vivitar 285HV and the AB800?

Why make it hard? VERY simple "outdoor studio"

I don't have, or miss it, either.

I just used cheap lights for these: FAQ - Studio Lighting

If you have no flash unit at all, then the first one you buy should be an E-TTL flash. These are much more versatile than studio lights or old-fashioned units like the Vivitar 285HV. Consider the 430EX Speedlite or the Sigma EF-530 DG Super. Both these units also have a manual mode which will be very useful when you venture into more creative approaches.

Most people use their flash units on-camera more than off-camera. Learn to use it this way first, then contemplate your studio.

Curtis N wrote in post #4814325
Learn to use it this way first, then contemplate your studio.

I have to disagree with you on this. I think to learn off camera and with no ETTL is easier than on camera. I bought the 430 first and then the 285. The 285 is easier to use and learn than the 430 even with auto mode since your not learning anying. Its auto. With the 285 I have to work things out and the operations just seem easier.

Curtis N wrote in post #4814325
If you have no flash unit at all, then the first one you buy should be an E-TTL flash. These are much more versatile than studio lights or old-fashioned units like the Vivitar 285HV. Consider the 430EX Speedlite or the Sigma EF-530 DG Super. Both these units also have a manual mode which will be very useful when you venture into more creative approaches.

Most people use their flash units on-camera more than off-camera. Learn to use it this way first, then contemplate your studio.

*AHEM!!!* Not most people. /Devils Advocate

OP-
The whole strobist site and off camera with speedlights thing is cool, but it can get expensive. I have two Vivitar 285HV's and 3 PW PII'. That's over $1000 in gear there when you add up flashes, triggers, stands, umbrellas, umbrella adapters, rechargable batteries, cables to connect everything.

There's cheaper was to go of course like ditching the PW's for the Cactus triggers supplied in the starving student wireless kit, but you're also giving up proven reliability for something that has a fraction of the range, doesn't always work like it should and is DOA a lot more than it should be.

But with the gear you do get portability but you lose power. Even being "cheaper" studio flash units, the AB's destroy most any speedlight when power output is compared. And then as Curtis pointed out, TTL flashes = more money. And iirc, a 430ex doesn't have manual mode, something you need when using radio triggers as you lose all ttl functions regardless of the flash and camera when you stick a radio trigger on there.

Village_Idiot wrote in post #4824091
*AHEM!!!* Not most people. /Devils Advocate.

98.6% of flash unit owners have never fired it off the camera's hotshoe, and have no idea what a PocketWizard, optical slave or PC cord are.

Except the guys who take the flash into the bathroom while their wife is showering and hit the test button, just to irritate her.

At least, that's what I've heard.

Curtis N wrote in post #4824141
98.6% of flash unit owners have never fired it off the camera's hotshoe, and have no idea what a PocketWizard, optical slave or PC cord are.

Except the guys who take the flash into the bathroom while their wife is showering and hit the test button, just to irritate her.

At least, that's what I've heard.

Well, one day when I'm bored I may drop into Ritz and ask if they can point me in the direction of a Pocket Wizard and see hoe long it takes for them to send me to a pornn shoppe.

Curtis N wrote in post #4824141
Except the guys who take the flash into the bathroom while their wife is showering and hit the test button, just to irritate her.

At least, that's what I've heard.

I did this last week. It did not irritate my wife it down right pissed her off.

Also my 4 month old son loves when i do it on low power through an umbrella.

To get on topic. There are many choices that we have given you. Decide which is best for you and let us all know what you picked and how it worked out.

Village_Idiot wrote in post #4824091
*AHEM!!!* Not most people. /Devils Advocate

OP-
The whole strobist site and off camera with speedlights thing is cool, but it can get expensive. I have two Vivitar 285HV's and 3 PW PII'. That's over $1000 in gear there when you add up flashes, triggers, stands, umbrellas, umbrella adapters, rechargable batteries, cables to connect everything.

There's cheaper was to go of course like ditching the PW's for the Cactus triggers supplied in the starving student wireless kit, but you're also giving up proven reliability for something that has a fraction of the range, doesn't always work like it should and is DOA a lot more than it should be.

But with the gear you do get portability but you lose power. Even being "cheaper" studio flash units, the AB's destroy most any speedlight when power output is compared. And then as Curtis pointed out, TTL flashes = more money. And iirc, a 430ex doesn't have manual mode, something you need when using radio triggers as you lose all ttl functions regardless of the flash and camera when you stick a radio trigger on there.

Thanks for all the replies. You lost me at the end there.....I thought the 430 does have a manual mode. It is listed as having one as per B&H's site.

Curtis N wrote in post #4824141
98.6% of flash unit owners have never fired it off the camera's hotshoe, and have no idea what a PocketWizard, optical slave or PC cord are.

Except the guys who take the flash into the bathroom while their wife is showering and hit the test button, just to irritate her.

At least, that's what I've heard.

Curtis, I really appreciate the help. I have read all the links at the bottom of your signature. Your posts are always very informative.

While I am sure most don't go off camera, I would like to. While I am new to this game I have every intention of getting as good as I can get as an amateur. I have devoured the strobist 101 stuff and can't get ahold of enough books.

I have been using an old quantaray flash lately and practicing bouncing and tooling around in the manual mode with different styles, but I definity want to end up off camera with multiple strobes.

And yes, I do hit the test button around my wife quite frequently!

slimninj4 wrote in post #4824233
I did this last week. It did not irritate my wife it down right pissed her off.

Also my 4 month old son loves when i do it on low power through an umbrella.

To get on topic. There are many choices that we have given you. Decide which is best for you and let us all know what you picked and how it worked out.

Man, I would love to but I am getting more confused.

I was about to pull the trigger on a 430ex and the wireless starving student kit at MPEX (minus the vivitar 285HV), but now I am not sure.

I would like to know more about the failure rates and range on the cactus triggers as there is no way I can spring for the PW at this stage. I also need to verify the 430 has a manual mode for sure.

The more I learn the more I realize I have no idea what I am doing.....

Mwvt9, it sounds to me like you have the enthusiasm and just need to be pointed in the right direction. But, since you don't have a flash, I think you should start off with one and work from there. I got a lot of use out of a 430EX. Since then I have sold it and bought a Sigma EF 500 DG Super, mainly because I got it at half of what I sold the 430 for.

I don't have any light stands or reflectors or light modifiers to do studio work.
But, I did get some good pics without all of that stuff by using my flash on camera and bouncing the light.

Check out this link to my story.
https://photography-on-the.net/forum/showthre​ad.php?t=443488

Mike