New S5 IS - annoyed

The basic thing that will hold you back no matter which camera you buy is that you don't understand the basics of photography, your camera, exposure. Auto will not work in many instances on any camera. If you're willing to put forth some effort pick up Understanding Exposure from the local bookstore.

The best solution IMO is to get an external flash with a swivel head and bounce off your classroom's ceiling if it is of average height. You won't blind anyone.

A cheapish DSLR like the D40 mentioned above *may* give you better results given the same amount of effort. But it's hard to be sure. It will be cleaner in terms of noise but the depth of field is shallower, and you'll come back upset about background blur.

NOsquid is right. Knowledge and education is required to get the results you want. "Auto" just doesn't cut it and a different camera in Auto mode probably won't solve anything.

But, if you combine knowledge with a possible different camera, then you're on to something.

For no-flash indoor shots the DSLR is the only answer.

Patti, I hope you are still with us.

To start, I understand your frustration and I hope we can help. I think (suspect?) that your new camera is capable of better pictures than the old one, but the higher resolution is showing you problems that you have had all along.

To start, no non-dSLR digicam including the G9 is great for low light / no flash work. That said, I don't think a dSLR is the solution for you. Sure, a fast 30mm prime and the nice clean high ISO of the dSLR will work, but now you are going to have to work hard to manage the super thin DOF and multiple kids in focus will become a real challenge.

Instead I urge you to consider taking advantage of the best feature of the S5 - the hotshoe. Get yourself a Canon 430EX flash ($225). Point the flash at the ceiling, use the S5's manual mode, select f/4 or so, 1/125, ISO 100 and shoot away. I suspect that this setup will deliver the kind of images you are looking for.

n1as wrote in post #4815645
Understood, but I'm not saying to take the photo with their face in the center, only put their face the center to get focus like this:

1. Center AF on kid's face - 1/2 press shutter AND HOLD IT.
   
2. Reframe the picture, moving kid off to side as needed.
   
3. Press the shutter button the rest of the way, taking the pic.

Ok, now I feel silly...Yes, I had been pressing the button halfway to focus but it had not occurred to me to then move the camera after that...

n1as wrote in post #4815645
Laying on the floor? Fabulous! Great! It is so important to get down to your subject's level!

Thanks! It never occurred to me to try to take pictures of a subject that only 9 inches above the floor without getting down there with them...all I'd get otherwise would be the tops of their little baby heads. Nope, I lay on the floor a lot, I sometimes end up resting the bottom of the camera on the floor and tipping it up a bit (tummy-time often puts their faces an inch or 2 above the floor), which is one reason that I picked the S5, I was hoping that the flip out screen would keep me from having to lay my head directly on the floor to see if the child is in the frame.

n1as wrote in post #4815645
Unfortunately, I believe that zoom working against you. Your lens changes from say f/2.8 at the wide angle end to maybe f/5.6 at the telephoto end. That would be 2 stops difference in light forcing the shutter to drop from 1/125 to 1/30 or forcing ISO go to from 200 to 800 (major grain).

Generally I've only been zooming a little, maybe a third (at most) of what the optical zoom is capable of.

n1as wrote in post #4815645
If these are photos that really matter, photos that have some commercial value, then maybe it is time for equipment that doesn't work against you?

They really matter because these pictures are the closest the parents of these kids will get to seeing many of their milestone moments...some of these parents leave their kids with us for 10 hours a day, 5 days a week (others only 8 hours a day)...they witness their children's lives through the pictures that I take...and I'm kind of camera-happy so I take a lot (not as many as professional photographers do, but I live by the theory that if you take a hundred pictures you're more likely to get some that you like than if you only took a few...) sometimes 2 or 3 hundred a day...some are just everyday moments, but some are milestone moments, first steps, first solid foods, first real smile, etc...and with those moments you don't get the chance to take more than a couple...if I miss them, they're gone. But other than that they have absolutely no commercial value, they will never make me money (other than maybe somewhat better gift cards for teacher appreciation week) because I can't sell pictures of someone else's baby.

Awwww.....

I have 4 kids (8,6,2, 1 month) but my wife is with them all day. One of (OK- the only) reason I have all the photographic gear I have is to shoot these kids (and my 10 nieces and nephews) doing things. It is a ton of fun for me.

Patty OGreen wrote in post #4819453
=Patty O'Green;4819453]They really matter because these pictures are the closest the parents of these kids will get to seeing many of their milestone moments...some of these parents leave their kids with us for 10 hours a day, 5 days a week (others only 8 hours a day)...they witness their children's lives through the pictures that I take...and I'm kind of camera-happy so I take a lot (not as many as professional photographers do, but I live by the theory that if you take a hundred pictures you're more likely to get some that you like than if you only took a few...) sometimes 2 or 3 hundred a day...some are just everyday moments, but some are milestone moments, first steps, first solid foods, first real smile, etc...and with those moments you don't get the chance to take more than a couple...if I miss them, they're gone. But other than that they have absolutely no commercial value, they will never make me money (other than maybe somewhat better gift cards for teacher appreciation week) because I can't sell pictures of someone else's baby.

Wow, that's cool. If I had my kids in day care, I'd want you to be there with them!

Here's a crazy thought. If there are enough parents, maybe they could take up a collection to get you a new camera and in return you provide unlimited digital images of their kids. A parent with a kid would spend $200 on a camera for themselves to photograph their kids, why shouldn't they contribute $200 towards a better quality camera for the same purpose?

The tip-out display on the S5 (and A640) are some of their best features. That is one thing I miss about going from the P&S to the DSLR.

JeffreyG wrote in post #4819097
Patti, I hope you are still with us.

To start, I understand your frustration and I hope we can help. I think (suspect?) that your new camera is capable of better pictures than the old one, but the higher resolution is showing you problems that you have had all along.

To start, no non-dSLR digicam including the G9 is great for low light / no flash work. That said, I don't think a dSLR is the solution for you. Sure, a fast 30mm prime and the nice clean high ISO of the dSLR will work, but now you are going to have to work hard to manage the super thin DOF and multiple kids in focus will become a real challenge.

Instead I urge you to consider taking advantage of the best feature of the S5 - the hotshoe. Get yourself a Canon 430EX flash ($225). Point the flash at the ceiling, use the S5's manual mode, select f/4 or so, 1/125, ISO 100 and shoot away. I suspect that this setup will deliver the kind of images you are looking for.

Yes, I'm still here...or rather, back...I was at work, then had to work on lesson plans, and prep for parent-teacher conferences...

I'm not really going for 'no-flash' but I'm not sure I can reasonably manage an extra flash....yes I've been using the on board flash, yes I have to edit out red-eye a lot...I'm not going to say that I don't want one/won't buy one, but how feasible is it really for taking pictures of subjects that are so often looking at the floor (from only a couple inches above it) and how much more disruptive to the activities they are doing will it be?

Well, here is a flash illuminated shot of my youngest using bounce. This shot was indoors in winter at f/4.

Redeye is never an issue when you bounce the flash, FYI.
I have to admit though...this is with a dSLR. You can see it in the DOF....his right hand is forward of the in focus region by a hair.

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n1as wrote in post #4819546
Wow, that's cool. If I had my kids in day care, I'd want you to be there with them!

Here's a crazy thought. If there are enough parents, maybe they could take up a collection to get you a new camera and in return you provide unlimited digital images of their kids. A parent with a kid would spend $200 on a camera for themselves to photograph their kids, why shouldn't they contribute $200 towards a better quality camera for the same purpose?

The tip-out display on the S5 (and A640) are some of their best features. That is one thing I miss about going from the P&S to the DSLR.

Thanks!

That is a nifty suggestion, and the parents (8 kids in my class...ages 7 weeks to 15 months) might even go for it, but I can pretty much guarantee that I'd get fired for suggesting it. Maybe someday when/if I open my own home daycare...

The problem I'm having with the tip-out display is that tipping it out causes the camera to turn the image around oddly so that it is very difficult to make adjustments because everything is upside down and backwards as though I'm supposed to be hanging upside down in front of the camera.

Jeffrey, that is a beautiful shot of a beautiful baby (and trust me, they aren't all beautiful)! Would it still have worked as well during tummy time?

Patty OGreen wrote in post #4819715
=Patty O'Green;4819715]
The problem I'm having with the tip-out display is that tipping it out causes the camera to turn the image around oddly so that it is very difficult to make adjustments because everything is upside down and backwards as though I'm supposed to be hanging upside down in front of the camera.

i took out my S2...and can't figure out how you're getting the image upside down?...no matter which way i flip/twist it...it's always facing straight

DreDaze wrote in post #4819799
i took out my S2...and can't figure out how you're getting the image upside down?...no matter which way i flip/twist it...it's always facing straight

Pretend that a 12 month old has gotten too close to you/the camera so you're trying to hold the camera far enough away from them to keep the flash from turning them into nothing but eyes and glare....so you flip the screen to perpendicular from the camera and hold it back over your shoulder...

Patty OGreen wrote in post #4819890
=Patty O'Green;4819890]Preten​d that a 12 month old has gotten too close to you/the camera so you're trying to hold the camera far enough away from them to keep the flash from turning them into nothing but eyes and glare....so you flip the screen to perpendicular from the camera and hold it back over your shoulder...

like one of these 2 scenarios?...they're both still the right orientation for me...yes i actually got on the ground and had to pretend i had a 12 month old..haha...oh yeah and these pictures suck...but you can see which way the screen is flipped out

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with my S3 I will get the image back to front if I dont push the screen all the way , or if I am looking around a corner.

I like my S3 it is the model below yours and I am still learning, I find that indoor shots are always hardest unless there is lots of light, preferably natural from a window, I love the ability to set the white balance, it makes such a difference with my pics.

With inside shots I find if the lighting is bad and I want to freeze the action so I dont get blur, I have to use the flash and be quite close to the subject., I take quite a few pics of cats, and the area is always dim and dull with the cats moving about alot, so I set my camera to a fast shutter speed and raise the flash and it enables me to get some goodish pictures.

If your interested in my pictures with the S3 click HERE