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Thread started 02 Feb 2008 (Saturday) 14:21
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Canon over Nikon?

 
kcbrown
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Feb 03, 2008 05:20 |  #46

gjl711 wrote in post #4838305 (external link)
Feel like tossing an a few more$$, add in the 430EX flash as well. The built in flash os ok and will give you shots a bit better than the high end P/S cameras, but it is not adjustable. A external flash with a tilting head allows for much more artistic use of light.

I can't recommend an external flash enough. Used properly, you can make the light from the flash look totally natural and make the shot look like it was taken entirely in ambient light:


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(I'm not terribly good at it yet, but I still think the above shot came out pretty well)

The above was taken with a 430EX. It's an excellent flash, in my relatively inexperienced opinion, and worth the $250 price tag. If you have the kit lens, it'll make it a lot more useful indoors.

"There are some things that money can't buy, but they aren't Ls and aren't worth having" -- Shooter-boy
Canon: 2 x 7D, Sigma 17-50 f/2.8 OS, 55-250 IS, Sigma 8-16, 24-105L, Sigma 50/1.4, other assorted primes, and a 430EX.
Nikon: D750, D600, 24-85 VR, 50 f/1.8G, 85 f/1.8G, Tamron 24-70 VC, Tamron 70-300 VC.

  
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rumble
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Feb 03, 2008 06:04 |  #47

dekalbSTEEL wrote in post #4839735 (external link)
Nikon puts the on/off switch in a circle around the shutter release button.

Dumbest feature I've ever seen in an SLR!

Actually it's a great feature. When you're carrying your DSLR your finger is right there. See something that you like? Your flip that switch and in a split second you're ready to fire ...
Aperture and exposure adjustments are on the two wheels which are very close as well, so if I have to make adjustments, that's done in a few seconds as well.

Not so dumb at all... Have you actually tried it ??




  
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Bronkowitz
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Feb 03, 2008 06:14 |  #48

The biggest drawback, if I can call it a drawback, is that the more I learn about this the more I want to go out and something now! I hope I have the willpower to wait.

Even more important, I hope I have the willpower not to "borrow" the equipment too often. :D




  
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rumble
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Feb 03, 2008 06:27 as a reply to  @ Bronkowitz's post |  #49

How I look at it :

As your wife uses the camera as a means to an end, and is not that interested in technical stuff, I would go for a nikon.
She's already used Nikon before and frankly I think the handling of a Nikon IS better. I do prefer the IQ of the Canon's though.

But as she's not the pixelpeeping type and wants to use the camera as a tool, I would go for Nikon in this specific case.




  
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Keith ­ R
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Feb 03, 2008 07:10 |  #50

rumble wrote in post #4841290 (external link)
Not so dumb at all... Have you actually tried it ??

Well I have, and it's hardly a selling point - I'd rather have a switch that isn't easy to activate accidentally, and in that regard the Canon arrangment is far better.

Besides, Canon battery life is generally excellent and I don't see a single reason not to simply switch the camera on once at the start of a shoot, and forget about it until I'm done.

If there is an advantage to the Nikon arrangement it's only because you need to switch their cameras off to save battery power...




  
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Feb 03, 2008 07:13 |  #51

Given your budget, I would say the following would work well.

Canon XTi - $510
http://www.pricegrabbe​r.com …31ee8a88045070f​b4c0edeb9e (external link)

Sigma 18-50mm MACRO - $370
http://www.pricegrabbe​r.com …26c49c806079be0​d6fe0610d4 (external link)

Sigma 70-300mm APO DG - $170
http://www.pricegrabbe​r.com …2f90312b56acd3b​381783f9d4 (external link)

2 very good bang for the buck lenses and all within your budget. Also, later consider the $450 Sigma 10-20 ultrawide lens, very fun!

The cheapest ETTL flash you can get too goes for $125, but it does not have a pivotal flash head, but better than the onboard flash, and you can diffuse it to soften the effect.


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rumble
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Feb 03, 2008 08:21 |  #52

Keith R wrote in post #4841456 (external link)
Well I have, and it's hardly a selling point - I'd rather have a switch that isn't easy to activate accidentally, and in that regard the Canon arrangment is far better.

Besides, Canon battery life is generally excellent and I don't see a single reason not to simply switch the camera on once at the start of a shoot, and forget about it until I'm done.

If there is an advantage to the Nikon arrangement it's only because you need to switch their cameras off to save battery power...

It's not a selling point, that's for sure...

I've heard from several canon user that they find the on/off switch a burden when they have to react quickly and the camera is turned off.
I've never heard that Canon has a distinct advantage where batteries are concerned, so there are definitely canon users out there that switch the camera off.

Situations where you would want to switch your camera off are e.g. : very cold weather, to save battery on the attached flash, when changing lenses, ...
If you can keep your camera on all the time and never had a problem : excellent if that works for you.

I've never turned off the camera by accident. You need to apply some pressure on the switch.




  
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peterbj7
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Feb 03, 2008 08:26 |  #53

I started photographing with a Zeiss Contina, a very basic viewfinder camera. No aids to focusing or metering, so everything was by estimation. You'd be surprised how good some of the results were. I would have continued using that for many more years (it had a superb lens) but I took it to an apparently good camera shop to have a small job done (adjusting the infinity point on the lens) and they broke it internally. Turned out they were cowboys. That left me looking for another camera.

I chose Canon simply because the A1 had just come out and had no peer. I used that camera very heavily over the next 10-15 years (3 or 4 reels of film a week, year-round, a lot for a casual user), with my favourite lens rapidly becoming the Tamron SP 70-210. In total I think I acquired ten lenses, four of them Canon. Photography was only a hobby for me (though I had pictures published by others) and I began to feel it was getting expensive, so I gradually used it less and less. I bought several compact P&S film cameras and ended up using them instead, easily my favourite being a tiny but very expensive Minox. I lost that to a mugger in Africa!

After a series of compact digitals (which I still use) I recently started hankering after real photography again. I did a lot of research, and for the available light photography that I've always loved couldn't find anything even in the same ballpark as the 5D. I bought it with the 24-105L and 100-400L, and I'm very happy with everything so far. Though that 100-400 is VERY heavy! Now all I need is a 50mm f1.4 and a good UWA zoom (not sure what yet). MAYBE I'll get a flash, though that's not what this camera is about for me and I probably won't bother - I use compacts for that.

In '79 Nikon was definitely dominant, and quite a few friends looked at the plastic finish of the A1 and weren't impressed. I've never dropped it, but I doubt if it would have survived much of an impact. Against that, it took the weight of the 70-210 over many years without any discernible distortion of the front of the body, which was an issue with some cameras then. The tough cameras that a professional would use back then included some of the Nikons (I forget what models were around, but I believe it was F1, F2, F4), as they were very robust. But they were also heavy beasts, and there was a new school of thought that went for the OM1 and to a lesser extent the OM2. A very prominent pro then was Patrick (later Lord) Lichfield, who was the first to be seen regularly with an OM1. He was also the first to use a compact in conjunction with his SLR. The Olympus cameras were greatly less heavy than the Nikons and every bit as robust, and were favourites with eg. mountaineering photographers. Canon were nowhere, just seen as nice but fragile toys for amateurs.

Now I've no intention of dropping my 5D, but it gives the impression of being hewn from solid metal. It feels incredibly solid and rigid (and damned heavy!). And as so many have said, Canon are in some ways currently ahead of the game, particularly for low light photography. Their technology leapfrogs with Nikon's, so that either range could be right for any individual at any given time.

To me the biggest decision was not Canon vs. Nikon, it was FF vs. cropped. And it was a difficult decision. There are far more lenses for cropped cameras out there, and they're cheaper, smaller and lighter. When i go out photographing I now always have a camera bag with me just as in the old days (though now i use backpack-style). Friends with cropped cameras can have the camera & walk-about lens round their neck, and spare lenses in their pockets. I don't have any pocket I'd trust my 100-400 to!

But compact cameras have come along in leaps and bounds, and I couldn't see any point in starting off again with a technology that overlapped so much with a pocket camera, and stopped short of the best available. So I went for the best quality i could achieve/afford with available light in mind.

I've also changed my compact camera, going from a fairly upmarket Canon (bought three years ago, so 5mp) to a much cheaper Samsung L85. Why on earth would I do that? Because I've used them, and in every respect I think it's a better camera than the Canon's (and other brands) I've used. I nearly ordered a G9, but after reading lots of reviews and questioning people who have them decided against it. I've never actually used one, though.

I never seriously considered any other brand. Canon & Nikon are without doubt the market leaders in quality cameras, and I wanted a brand/system that lots of people would be making lots of lenses for for many years. I think some more of the other brands may consolidate/disappear over the coming years, as SLR photography becomes more and more marginalised as a specialist activiity. Most people these days go for P&S, even for video (another market that I think will greatly contract).

Sony I wouldn't entertain, as even before choosing a system you're choosing a company, and my experiences with Sony have not been good. They do make some cute gadgets, often leading-edge technology with no competition, and a few years ago I bought a DAT recorder from them. Superb performance initially, but after 3 or 4 years it began malfunctioning and I asked them to repair it. They said they regarded it as "expendable" and said they neither had a repair facility (for these machines) nor did they supply parts. They said I should throw it away and buy another. If I tell you that this item sold for well over $2000 you'll see why I was unhappy. I also had a Sony mini-DV video recorder that malfunctioned just out of warranty. They accepted it for repair at my expense, but to cut a long story short it never worked properly again. They did have the good grace to replace it after i had complained several times, but so far as I was concerned the damage was done. Sony are a dreadful company.

Canon on the other hand are a superb company. They fitted several models of compact camera with a bought-in CCD that turned out to be faulty, and even though this was a good 2 years after the cameras were sold they announced that they would repair them free. I had a model so affected and had written it off (though fortunately not thrown it away) and they made it good as new. There aren't many companies as good as this, and it pays to patronise them. I had already bought my 5D so it didn't influence that decision, but it would have done.

I have no direct experience of Nikon as a company, but to be fair I believe they also stand by their products.

My only recent experience of Pentax is in buying spectacle lenses. It wasn't a happy experience and it seems their quality control has slipped badly. Doesn't speak too well for any of their products.

What other manufacturers of significant size and stability are there?


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Mr. ­ Clean
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Feb 03, 2008 11:40 |  #54

I went with Canon becasue there are pretty much what I was brought up on.
6 or one half dozen though. Nikon and Canon are the best gear manufacturers out there without a doubt and you absolutely can't lose with either.
In the end, gear is only about 5% of the total equation anyway.


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Feb 03, 2008 12:04 |  #55
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ed rader wrote in post #4839901 (external link)
i've never used a nikon camera

i think canon is the best brand made. in fact i know it is because that's what my experience tells me :D.

Eh?


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Consensus ­ Trance
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Feb 03, 2008 12:19 |  #56
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Bronkowitz wrote in post #4838236 (external link)
I appreciate all the frank responses. There's a lot of good information here. I look forward to reading more of the forum. There's so much to learn!

Canon vs Nikon is like Coke vs Pepsi

From a technical standpoint...each camera has it's own strengths and weaknesses. Most people that are non-professionals probably won't push either camera beyond it's limits.

Traditionally, Canon had more precise autofocus and a faster lineup of lenses. But that's not necessarily true anymore. Canon still has a wider ranger of faster lenses available but I actually think Nikon is beating canon in *some* precision auto-focus now. So they're about even...coke vs pepsi.

My experience is that Canon gives magenta skin tones and Nikon gives yellow skin tones. Coke vs Pepsi.

My real favorite in the digital SLR market is the Fuji S5.




  
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jr_senator
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Feb 03, 2008 13:15 |  #57

I would say it depends somewhat on where in the brand's camera priice range you are getting into. I have a brother, three cousins and a long time friend I have done photography with for 30+ years that all have Nikon systems. If I were considering which system at this time to get into the only Nikon I would consider is the D3 which uses a CMOS sensor like Canon has for some time and was a major consideration when i first went digital. If someone was going to get a lower or mid-line camera I would say to consider the CCD Nikon uses and the CMOS Canon uses. If a top line camera is what one is going to get then it's pretty much a toss-up in my thinking. I like the way a Nikon feels when held, where the fingers fall, and I have always thought highly of Nikon glass. Nikon also has a nice (maybe nicer the Canon's) flash system. I would really have to research the options and that would include 'hands on' for sure. Good



  
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Feb 03, 2008 13:33 |  #58

diet coke all the way! :-)

Consensus Trance wrote in post #4842646 (external link)
Canon vs Nikon is like Coke vs Pepsi

From a technical standpoint...each camera has it's own strengths and weaknesses. Most people that are non-professionals probably won't push either camera beyond it's limits.

Traditionally, Canon had more precise autofocus and a faster lineup of lenses. But that's not necessarily true anymore. Canon still has a wider ranger of faster lenses available but I actually think Nikon is beating canon in *some* precision auto-focus now. So they're about even...coke vs pepsi.

My experience is that Canon gives magenta skin tones and Nikon gives yellow skin tones. Coke vs Pepsi.

My real favorite in the digital SLR market is the Fuji S5.


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Feb 03, 2008 13:41 |  #59
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jr_senator wrote in post #4842996 (external link)
the only Nikon I would consider is the D3 which uses a CMOS sensor like Canon has for some time and was a major consideration when i first went digital. If someone was going to get a lower or mid-line camera I would say to consider the CCD Nikon uses and the CMOS Canon uses.

The D300 also uses a CMOS sensor.


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statsman
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Feb 03, 2008 13:45 |  #60

Consensus Trance wrote in post #4842646 (external link)
Traditionally, Canon had more precise autofocus ...

Not in my experience. On average, I find Canon's autofocus to be a bit faster than Nikon's, but Nikon's autofocus to be a bit more accurate. I can find certain situations and setups where this differs, but by and large this seems to be my findings.

Edit: Whoops, should have read the rest of your post more carefully:

Consensus Trance wrote in post #4842646 (external link)
... but I actually think Nikon is beating canon in *some* precision auto-focus now.

I agree.


  
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Canon over Nikon?
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