Looking for some more direction on basketball - ambient w/XTi, 85mm

santabarbarapix wrote in post #4863361
Flute. Don't panic. There have been reams of posts written here about indoor basketball photography. As you are discovering, this type of photography is an art, not a science. 3 Years ago, I started out with an XTi. I upgraded to a 30D about 18 months ago, and then upgraded again to a 40D about 6 months ago. I shoot mostly outdoor in farily poor light, so I can provide some insight:

1. AI Servo is what you should be using. Keep to it...
2. Based on my results and what I've read here about indoor basketball, try shooting in RAW only, and start experimenting with PP in Adobe Photoshop. That has really improved my photography.
3. With your 85mm, try to shoot only action that fills your frame. The first two images are nice, but a bit too far. From similar posts, it looks like the best stuff is shot from under the basket.
4. Invest in a monopod (if you don't already have one).
5. I would like to see you move yourself under the basket, only take pictures of action right in front of you that fills the frame, shoot in raw, and practice your PP in Photoshop.

Keep at it and don't give up...

What??? Shooting RAW is NOT required. I shoot 4 or 5 games a week from HS to pro events and never, ever shoot RAW. Learn to properly expose your shots and JPEG is all you will ever need (OK, almost all you will ever need - once in a blue moon I will shoot RAW+JPEG under very, very challenging light). And certainly don't shoot RAW with the assumption that you'll fix it all in post processing (or as the OP called it "bringing them up"), for the love of all that is holy! If there isn't enough light there to shoot the stuff, either add more light, or pack up and go home! You can't make the light bend to your will - if it's not there, the photos won't turn out.

Plus, I can't imagine how goofy one would look holding a camera with an 85 f/1.8 lens on it attached to a monopod. Why in the World would one need a monopod on an 85mm lens?

I agree that shooting tight is a good idea, but you can also crop a bit tighter if you shoot a little too loose. I don't happen to like the focal length of the 85 for basketball - it's too short for me.

There is some info on shooting ambient light in the second episode of a podcast here:

http://www.sportsphoto​graphycast.com

I know the author and he's working on the next episode which will be about strobing and flashing indoor sports. One hint: don't use HSS, please.

flute, David gave you some decent advice, and Tom Witte's site and of course Strobists are both excellent places to read about using speedlights to light gyms.

As for getting "looks" walking into gyms with a lot of gear, if you look like you know what you're doing (and have pre-approval from the school's AD and/or Principal) you might be amazed at how few questions you'll get. I strobe gyms several times each week and very, very rarely am even questioned about it.

dmwierz wrote in post #4867206
Plus, I can't imagine how goofy one would look holding a camera with an 85 f/1.8 lens on it attached to a monopod. Why in the World would one need a monopod on an 85mm lens?

There was a guy at the wrestling regionals this past weekend shooting with a P&S mounted on a Gitzo MP. It was not a small one, but one I would have felt comfortable using with a 400. I could not tell which model P&S he was using but am guessing his MP cost more than the camera. The camera was barley wider than the support plate at the connection.

I started to take a picture of him and started laughing so hard to myself I moved my AF point off and missed him. I bet I missed 100 shots the remainder of the day because I kept looking for him to get another shot at a picture and never saw him again. I hope he is at the semi-state tourney this weekend.

While probably not as hard, I would laugh at someone with an 85 and a monopod as well, but I am easily amused.

there was a thread somewhere about WB'ing in a gym...

the person did 8 shots back to back and showed the cycling of the lights...

i think u can only get a generic temperature value to work with and just hope you catch the middle of them... I did try with mine, did a full burst 11 raw files and the light cycling in my gym was bad... i think i caught, orange, white, blue and some other shade of the light cycling...

dmwierz wrote in post #4867206
http://www.sportsphoto​graphycast.com

I know the author and he's working on the next episode which will be about strobing and flashing indoor sports.

You say you "know the author." Will he be done with his work on that next episode soon?



PS Tell him to take his time. I have so many questions on the subject that I'd prefer he be thorough rather than quick. My indoor shooting is done till next year.

Ooh, Dennis you know I think you're celestial, right? I haven't even watched the podcast yet and already I know it rocks. Thanks! I assume it's ok to share it with my friends?

I realize that I'm caught between a rock and a hard place in this gym, especially with my limited skills. The best I can do, I think, is keep plugging along and keep trying and keep studying. Much of what has been suggested here I'm already doing (except for strobing), so I suppose I'm on the right track and just need more practice, which I already knew. Thanks for all of your responses and comments. I really appreciate them!

Oh..and Dennis...the books you recommended to me are fantastic! Glad I took your advice on those.

I shoot at 3200, in raw, and use a wide lens from under the basket. 85mm is too long for under the basket. Try 24-70L.

nebula_42 wrote in post #4873105
I shoot at 3200, in raw, and use a wide lens from under the basket. 85mm is too long for under the basket. Try 24-70L.

I would if I had it.

Flute,

Hi there! I'm Jerry and I can help you solve some of your camera issues, the rebel you are using is just fine, you can make it work until you get the 40D. I first would suggest shooting your 85mm wide open at 1.8 with Auto White Balance in AI Servo with center point focus. There are two reasons for this, First the more open your aperture is the more light in let in. Because many HS gym lights are not always consistent, meaning they do not always cycle fast you have to work with what you have. In addition to the above, try Manual focus with 1/500 with 1.8 F at 1600 on AWB. The reason I suggest AWB is, that using Tungsten might look good on the LCD, but when put on the computer it might be too harsh of a light. Also, when you focus, focus on the players eyes, because if they are dark skinned and wearing white shirts, the white will reflect causing your cameras meter to go every which way. The same is true of a light skinned person in a dark shirt only it adds more contrast. Try shooting closer to the basket and sitting just underneath the basket to the right or left of the two point lanes. Good luck and keep it up.!

Jerry

Update:

On the advice of Dennis and our local newspaper editor (who obviously has shot in this gym), and after studying the strobist links, I tried strobing at practice last night. With one speedlight I got from +2/3~1 1/3 stop, so was happy with that. When I added a second flash and slaved the speedlight, I got another +1/3~2/3. I was just starting to get excited when one of the flashes shot craps. BUT it did give me hope. I will work on that flash today and see if I can get it working again. If not, would it be entirely out of the question to trigger the speedlight with my onboard flash (gasp!)? I'm concerned about strength, light color and direction (I was bouncing the externals).

Still not entirely giving up on ambient, but willing to pursue all my options.

I also discovered that in ZB I can view where my designated focal point ended up. This is very valuable to me, as I can see if/when I miss the target. There were several where I hit the target but the shot is still oof, or back-focused. And of course there are plenty where I just missed. But at least now I know who to blame!

Thanks all for your suggestions and advice!!

Ok, after reviewing what few practice shots I did get last night, now I'm full of questions about strobing. Obviously, I can't burst. So then is Servo and * still my best bet for focus (I had it on single shot shutter button focus last night)? I found that with the flash(es) my shutter response time was significantly delayed (which sorta makes sense but sorta doesn't - could it have been partly due to the flash that wasn't working properly?). There were a few shots where the focus point was spot on the target but the whole shot was still OOF. Of course there were plenty that I clearly just missed, but being able to see where the FP landed has been a huge value to me and I'm missing fewer than I thought. I wonder if there's a way to screenshot that in ZB?

Also, even at f4, I still had a few shots where the FP hit the kid square in the chest, and his face was still OOF. Is this just as good as it gets? These kids are 12 so not very tall, compared to HS or college/pro players.

And one more duuumb question, I'm afraid. I ended up switching to my 75-300 just to see what would happen, and am wondering if the rule about ss relating to focal length applies to the actual maximum zoom of the lens, or just whatever FL you've got it set on at the time of the shot.

Thanks!

dschach wrote in post #4865625
You're welcome. One other thing about white balance, photograph the gray card using 1/60 second. The gyms lights often cycle and change color during the cycle. By shooting the gray card at 1/60 you get a complete cycle in the photo.

David

When setting the custom white balance and setting the camera at 1/60, should I change the other settings such as ISO speed and and f stops to have the picture of the grey card properly exposed? or, should I just set the shutter speed at 1/60 and keep the ISO and f stops at the levels that i would usually shoot inside that particular gym?