when using a gary fong (or any type) of flash bounce/diffuser...

is it necessary to increase the flash power any?

I am using the XTi + 430 in my nightclub photography and general using one of these settings :

TV 1/20 (which gives me 2.8)
TV 1/30 (same as above)
M AV 4.0 TV 1/20

I set my flash at +1 and point it straight at the subject. Some of my pictures come out with the typical shiny foreheads and some of them come out underexposed.

I was thinking of a flash bounce card or something. Point the flash straight up, set the power to +1 and blast away. The ceilings in clubs are generally painted black. So not much of a bounce off the ceiling happening there.

Suggestions?

Lots of people find they need a litt more +FEC when bouncing the flash. There are various theories why it's needed. My theory is that bounced flash tends to light up the background more, and this affects the flash metering.

If you are using a bounce card and pointing the flash straight up, and the ceiling is black, probably all that will do for you is give you a slightly larger apparent light source while wasting most of the flash power. Whether or not you need more +FEC with this technique is anyone's guess so you'll just have to experiment.

With a black ceiling, I would think that flash-mounted softbox or Lumiquest Pocket Bouncer would be more efficient and more effective than a bounce card.

Curtis - you need to come hold my hand while I learn flash. LOL

Ok, I went here : http://www.lumiquest.c​om/lq871.htm

And it states : Light Loss: Approximately 1 1/3 stops.

So if I am currently using my flash at +1 direct at the subject, I will need to boost it up to 2 1/3 correct?

Also, I am using between 17mm and 28mm range on the Tamron 17-50 2.8 if this info helps you anyway. Normally at ISO 800.

If your flash is in ETTL mode it should compensate since the path the pre-flash takes should be the same as the full flash.

Titus is correct. E-TTL or any other automatic flash metering system will (theoretically) account for the reduced efficiency of flash modifiers, provided the flash has enough power, given your camera settings and the conditions.

And if the flash doesn't have enough power, no amount of +FEC will solve the problem.

Curtis N wrote in post #4910855
Titus is correct. E-TTL or any other automatic flash metering system will (theoretically) account for the reduced efficiency of flash modifiers, provided the flash has enough power, given your camera settings and the conditions.

And if the flash doesn't have enough power, no amount of +FEC will solve the problem.

Ok just for throwing it out... can you give me a guesstimate of what my camera setting should be?

I listed them above, is there a better setting I should use?

Also, when turning the flash straight up, it is not exactly going straight to the subject. Right?

ClickClick wrote in post #4911650
Ok just for throwing it out... can you give me a guesstimate of what my camera setting should be?

I listed them above, is there a better setting I should use?

Also, when turning the flash straight up, it is not exactly going straight to the subject. Right?

your camera setting would be no different with a light modifier on the flash, than without a light modifier on the flash. ... unless the modifier simply reduces the light output to the point that you need to user a faster aperture on the lens!

I'd use M mode on the camera - f4.0 and a shutter speed of 125 to start, ISO 800 is getting high on an XTi but workable. It all depends on your ambient light and how much of it you want in the picture. And if it's really dark the 1/20 shutter might work without causing ghosting but I doubt it.

Look at your flash photography as two pictures, one using ambient light and the other the flash. Meter for the ambient content of your scene - or at least as much as you can get/want - and let the flash in ETTL mode take care of the rest.

There are a couple of really good club shot threads over in the People section I think.

That is exactly why I only had my XTI for 3 days and sent it back for a refund and got it. My goodness, talk about underexposure..and 1 shot out of 3 it would not even recognize I had a flash on the hotshoe. I read many threads after that and found out more than half of XTI owners face that same problem and they all sent their cameras back for a refund. To me an XTI is like a certain model of small compact chev. car, one of the worst ideas every put together.I went back to an XT and now I\'m happy.

Shooting wrote in post #4913225
That is exactly why I only had my XTI for 3 days and sent it back for a refund and got it. My goodness, talk about underexposure..and 1 shot out of 3 it would not even recognize I had a flash on the hotshoe. I read many threads after that and found out more than half of XTI owners face that same problem and they all sent their cameras back for a refund. To me an XTI is like a certain model of small compact chev. car, one of the worst ideas every put together.I went back to an XT and now I\'m happy.

*Sigh*. Only if you look at it and use it as an advanced point and shoot...

Shooting wrote in post #4913225
That is exactly why I only had my XTI for 3 days and sent it back for a refund and got it. My goodness, talk about underexposure..and 1 shot out of 3 it would not even recognize I had a flash on the hotshoe. I read many threads after that and found out more than half of XTI owners face that same problem and they all sent their cameras back for a refund. To me an XTI is like a certain model of small compact chev. car, one of the worst ideas every put together.I went back to an XT and now I\'m happy.

YES!!! That is what i am talking about.

Ok, if you don't mind me adding a few more questions/issues here for everyone to comment upon. (thanks for all the help so far)

I thought when you turned your flash head up or to the side, it automatically went into 50mm mode. Do I need to adjust that for using a focal length of 17-24mm?

Also, in Titus response, I am a bit confused about that. Ok, so I meter the scene based on ambient light... well when I do that it gives me a reading with something like 2.8 and a long shutter time. - 1/10 or so. That to me is too shallow depth of field and a slow shutter that will produce ghosting. or maybe I am missing something. I have read the stickies in the flash section with the guides and all.

Can you provide an in depth description. Here is the scenario : Group of 3 people, dark club interior, lighting at bar and neon swirls in background of dance floor.

That's why the caveat in my last post 'or at least as much as you can get/want'. If your flash will not fill the background then you have to decide what you want at the expense of something. You can shoot f2.8 at 1/10 and risk ghosting to get the background properly exposed or you can select the minimum you can hold f2.8 at 1/focal length, let the flash expose the foreground subject and live with an underexposed background. Basically you can't have (nor do you really want) it all.

i put minisoftbox on my flash and i see a little output increase if i shoot direct. while flash in auto and camera in av mode with average metering not e-ttl in.

ClickClick wrote in post #4914443
I thought when you turned your flash head up or to the side, it automatically went into 50mm mode. Do I need to adjust that for using a focal length of 17-24mm?

No.

Matching your focal length is pointless with bounced flash.