580 EX-II not enough power.

I've been using the 580 EX-II to shoot indoor basketball. I bounce the flash off the gym ceiling (off white), some 30+ feet above the gym floor. Lighting and color are good but I don't quite have enough output.

I shoot 1/250 sec, f/2.8, ISO 800 which puts me 2 stops above the ambient light. Unfortunately, 2 stops isn't enough to truly isolate the flash exposure and I'm getting some ghosting and motion blur from the ambient exposure superimposed on the flash exposure.

Recycle times on the flash are long as well since I'm operating at or near full power. I think I need more flash output.

I'm seriously considering a pair of AB 800's bounced off the ceiling.


Q1: How do you convert from Guide Number to watt-seconds? Is a 400 watt-second strobe more output than a flash with a guide number 150?


Q2: Are there other flash units I should consider. Something with at least 2x the output of the 580 EX-II?

There is no direct conversion between guide number and watt-seconds. The GN depends on the coverage angle, and the true watt-second rating is simply a measurement of energy stored in a flash unit's capacitor. My crude experiments indicate the 580EX II is good for about 40 watt-seconds but that's just a rough guess.

Yes, there are more powrful flash units. The Quantum Qflash is one of the few that are E-TTL compatible (with the right accessories). Plan on spending around $1,000.

MT Stringer is using two 540ez flashes to do basketball.

Have a look here

https://photography-on-the.net …?t=454711&highl​ight=540ez

Maybe he can give you a lil' advice

Yea, that's what I was afraid of. I think I'd be better off buying a pair of AB flashes than the Quantum. Less money, more flash, no?

Plus the ABs would open the world of studio flash / portraits to me which is an area I've never dabbled in.

I'm still thinkin' about it all. The other option is to just stay with (un) available light photography and continue shooting 1/500 f/2 with the prime lenses.

I would be more than happy having that shutter speed and F2 indoors. Just my opinion.

Chuck

Keith, the gym I've been shooting in is new, with a high white ceiling. Stands on one side only and about 15 feet from the baseline to the wall. I was fortunate that they have a balcony, yet It doesn't go all the way across the back because there are rooms on each side.

The last game I shot with the 540's set on 1/4th power and the pics turned out pretty good. Like you, I also got some ghosting in the fingers, hands, etc. But some of the pics turned pretty good. If I was to do it again, I would increase my power to 1/2 and try it that way, then go to 1/1. Well, they lost so the season is over for me.

I may also look into some AB800's for next season...and a battery pack, but right now, it's not in my budget.

Here's a shot from the last game.
Mike

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Mike & others,

Thanks for the info. Here are some example shots. I see an overall softness to some of them that I think is due to ghosting but maybe it isn't? Could it just be poor focus? Could it be that the lens isn't as sharp wide open as I'd like it to be?

These first two look soft to me. Both shot with the 24-70L at 70mm f/2.8 (where it is the fuzziest).

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Then there are these two which definitely look better to me. The last one, esp. shows blur issues around the feet, hands, etc. while the player's face is nice & sharp.

Yes?

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One more that looks non-sharp to me.

Any idea what is up with all of this?

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Keith, check out Breezebrowser Pro.
http://www.breezesys.c​om/BreezeBrowser/

I really like this program. It makes it easy to go through a big pile of images quickly, tagging the throw-aways, and later you can do a wholesale delete of all tagged images. Sure sped up my work flow.

A feature of this program allows you to view your focus points on the image.
I tried it on your pics but it didn't work. However, it does work on mine. You might want to download it and try it out. There is a 15 day free evaluation period.

Mike

Looking at the floor boards, I'd say your focus point is a foot or two behind the subject. Exposure and "action stoppage" seem pretty good.

Keith - What body & lens are you using?

I find that generally, the AI Servo AF performance of my 20D and 30D really aren't up to the challenge of following basketball players in dark gyms.

I just set up 2 AB 800s in our school gym. I also purchased the 11 in reflectors. Both are mounted with bogen superclamps and cables, and are bounced off the ceiling. Since it is a semi permanent setup, I also purchased a wireless remote that allows me to turn each flash on and off, as well as AB remotes. The whole system was under 1000.00, and works great. It needs some tweeking, but that neccesitates the use of our cherry picker! Good Luck

Is the flash on M? Bump to 1000 ISO.

OP again.

Let's see, I'm shooting with a 40D. Those pics were all with the 24-70L. Camera in M (1/250, f/2.8), flash in auto (ETT-L).

Yes, focus does seem to fall behind the players. I do run in servo focus mode, center AF point only. Sometimes when the players lean in, they'll lean their heads forward of the focus zone since the AF point is usually on their letters.

I'll have to scan my other pics to see if I get similar results with the 85 f/1.8. I don't know because I rarely shoot flash with that lens.

Oh, as to bumping ISO to 1000, is that so I can stop down the lens 1/3 stop? Probably not a bad idea. More DOF, sharper image. I've actually thought about shooting at ISO 1600 and f/4. Flash output would be exactly the same.

Thanks guys!