40D - EC info when shooting in Manual

I just took some shots with my 40D in manual exposure mode with my 580EX II. I was using the 40D to indirectly set my camera exposure compensation to -2 for the background (via adjusting ISO, speed and aperture) and my flash exposure compensation to -1 for filling a backlit portrait (late day sun). I then checked the image info on the 40D LCD and was surprised to see the camera EC was not recorded there. Damn.

When shooting Av mode, both ECs info is captured. I was trying several combinations of camera EC and FEC and wanted to review the photos with both these factors in mind, but can't since camera EC is apparently not recorded when in manual - unless some genius here can tell me a way! Would greatly appreciate the help.

Mike

EC isn't recorded in manual mode because you're not really setting exposure compensation, but rather you're directly setting the exposure.

In manual mode when you under or overexpose from zero you are doing just that. In AV and TV mode when you set an EV valve you are overriding the cameras meter reading.

Thanks Mark. We're talking about the same thing, but stating it a little differently I believe. IMO when in Av, I am directly setting camera EC by adjusting the EC display (and the camera adjusts the variable(s) to get me the EC I chose). When in Manual, I directly adjust ISO, shutter speed and aperture to indirectly adjust camera EC.

As mentioned, I'm shooting combinations of EC and FEC, then viewing the images to learn from them so I can begin to develop a gut-feel for settings I prefer under similar ambient light circumstances in the future. The absence of recorded EC really hurts. Are you sure that there is no way to obtain that info?

Mike

MJH1 wrote in post #4994522
Thanks Mark. We're talking about the same thing, but stating it a little differently I believe. IMO when in Av, I am directly setting camera EC by adjusting the EC display (and the camera adjusts the variable(s) to get me the EC I chose). When in Manual, I directly adjust ISO, shutter speed and aperture to indirectly adjust camera EC.

As mentioned, I'm shooting combinations of EC and FEC, then viewing the images to learn from them so I can begin to develop a gut-feel for settings I prefer under similar ambient light circumstances in the future. The absence of recorded EC really hurts. Are you sure that there is no way to obtain that info?

Mike

In Av or Tv if you use EC you are directly amending the camera's exposure. This would be the same in manual mode as far as I can see. AFAIK there is no such thing as EC in manual mode although the camera meter will give its indication, you manually over/under expose this for the given scene.

FEC is different as this adjusts the output of the flash at any given exposure.

You're going to have to get a 1-series body with the voice record function

EOS_JD wrote in post #4994533
In Av or Tv if you use EC you are directly amending the camera's exposure. This would be the same in manual mode as far as I can see. AFAIK there is no such thing as EC in manual mode although the camera meter will give its indication, you manually over/under expose this for the given scene.

FEC is different as this adjusts the output of the flash at any given exposure.

Yes. Saying that EC was set in MM is very confusing. I would stick to underexposing or overexposing to describe that.

I'm amazed that this and better EOS DSLRs don't capture this info. Seems very fundamental. What a pain in the _ _ _.

Thanks everyone for your comments.

Mike

When you're shooting in Manual, the SS and Aperture are recorded. Whether the needle in your viewfinder was to the left or to the right should be apparent in the captured image.

MJH1 wrote in post #4994588
I'm amazed that this and better EOS DSLRs don't capture this info. Seems very fundamental. What a pain in the _ _ _.

Thanks everyone for your comments.

Mike

Not really sure why it would capture this info? Whaty is fundemental is that you get the exposure correct.

MJH1 wrote in post #4994588
I'm amazed that this and better EOS DSLRs don't capture this info. Seems very fundamental. What a pain in the _ _ _.

Thanks everyone for your comments.

Mike

There's a fundamental difference between how the camera sees an auto exposure with EC set and how it sees a manual exposure which you've set to under/overexpose from the suggested by a stop.

When you set EC, you tell the camera that "Everything I meter, no matter what the reading is, underexpose it 2 stops". So the camera has to remember "Hmmmm. . . 2 stops under. Right." and it has that info to record. It then applies that identical 2 stop adjustment to every shot you take until you reset EC.

When you use Manual mode, the camera doesn't even know if you used the in-camera meter to take a reading. You may have used the in-camera meter and offset "correct" exposure by 2 stops. But, you equally might have used a hand-held external meter to take an incident meter reading and set the aperture, shutter speed and ISO from that, disregarding the camera's meter. In addition, you might have set the aperture and shutter before taking one shot, then moved on to another shot without adjusting either of them for the new one. The meter may have showed 2 stops underexposure when you took the first shot but only 1 stop under, or 1 stop over, when you shot the second picture. What would "EC" mean there? Essentially, in Manual, the meter is disconnected from any active role in controlling your exposure.

Jon wrote in post #4999041
There's a fundamental difference between how the camera sees an auto exposure with EC set and how it sees a manual exposure which you've set to under/overexpose from the suggested by a stop.

When you set EC, you tell the camera that "Everything I meter, no matter what the reading is, underexpose it 2 stops". So the camera has to remember "Hmmmm. . . 2 stops under. Right." and it has that info to record. It then applies that identical 2 stop adjustment to every shot you take until you reset EC.

When you use Manual mode, the camera doesn't even know if you used the in-camera meter to take a reading. You may have used the in-camera meter and offset "correct" exposure by 2 stops. But, you equally might have used a hand-held external meter to take an incident meter reading and set the aperture, shutter speed and ISO from that, disregarding the camera's meter. In addition, you might have set the aperture and shutter before taking one shot, then moved on to another shot without adjusting either of them for the new one. The meter may have showed 2 stops underexposure when you took the first shot but only 1 stop under, or 1 stop over, when you shot the second picture. What would "EC" mean there? Essentially, in Manual, the meter is disconnected from any active role in controlling your exposure.

Also remember that the camera meter is not an incident light meter. When using my studio strobes, the EC would be off the scale. My camera mater might tell me that the correct exposure is 2seconds at ISO100 and f8. However when I take my shot in the studio using manual, it's likely the real exposure is 1/125th @ ISO100 and f8.

As stated above there is NO EC in a manual exposure.

I understand the original poster wants a record of how the camera metered the scene, in spite of using manual mode.

But it's easy to accomplish. Set the camera to Av or Tv, then set an EC value you like and take the picture. The result would be the same as if you deviated from the metered value by using manual mode. But in this case, the EC is in the EXIF metadata.

apersson850 wrote in post #5000454
I understand the original poster wants a record of how the camera metered the scene, in spite of using manual mode.

But it's easy to accomplish. Set the camera to Av or Tv, then set an EC value you like and take the picture. The result would be the same as if you deviated from the metered value by using manual mode. But in this case, the EC is in the EXIF metadata.

Thanks Anders - you understand what I'm after and that's a good suggestion.

Mike

Sigh, this kind of thing comes up every once and a while when people have NO idea what M is for or how it's meant to be used. Everything Jon said is correct.

M is COMPLETELY different from Av, Tv, and P. The concept of EC has no meaning in M. M is the only mode in which you can set the exposure completely independently of the camera's meter. In every other mode the camera has some say, you don't have full creative control. You don't have to rely on your meter for exposures, y'know?

I don't remember the last time I looked at the camera's meter, or cared what its reading was during shooting, or in post.

The feature the OP cites would be completely useless imho. If you shoot in a studio, or do landscapes with GNDs, or are smarter than a reflected light meter that sees everything as 18% grey, why would you care how your camera metered the scene? It would serve no purpose. The camera is dumb, don't let it dictate your exposures.

Also, a lot of people, myself included, would not benefit from this feature. My exif would show all kinds of crazy sh** like EC + 8 and EC - 5 o_O...

apersson850 wrote in post #5000454
I understand the original poster wants a record of how the camera metered the scene, in spite of using manual mode.

But it's easy to accomplish. Set the camera to Av or Tv, then set an EC value you like and take the picture. The result would be the same as if you deviated from the metered value by using manual mode. But in this case, the EC is in the EXIF metadata.

??? Only if the light doesn't change, and you keep the camera on a tripod and perfectly still between both shots, and made an extra effort to get the exposures the same. But...why?