Colour calibration help

This has been annoying me for quite a while, but I haven't had time to deal with it until now...

I'm working on a new ThinkPad, calibrated with an original EyeOne device with the Match software. I've tried both native and 6500K white points, 2.2 gamma, and the default laptop luminance setting.

The problem I'm having is that when I edit photos in profile-aware software like Photoshop or Lightroom, they look completely different from the versions viewed in Firefox or the Window image previewer (both not profile-aware). This is for anything, including regular SRGB jpegs. SRGB is my default colour space in Photoshop and Lightroom. If I set Photoshop's colour space to the monitor profile or assign the profile to the images, they look exactly the same as they do in Firefox or Windows. Photoshop's "save for web" preview shows the same colours.

Am I missing something here?

The difference in those images is very subtle, you'd have to be looking to notice. btw never put your monitor profile into photoshop.

I know on my PC images in photoshop look the same in firefox if they're saved in sRgb.

Do you have your monitor profile set up in the windows display control panel?

Of course they look different, that's the purpose of color management. CM takes an image with an embedded profile and translates its colors into the closest ones that your monitor can display or your printer can print. Non-CM just sends the color data to the monitor without changing it and what is displayed is dependent on the nature of your monitor. Some are close to the sRGB standard and others are way off. The further off it is, the more difference you will see between CM and non-CM.
Setting the CM working space to your monitor profile is the same as turning CM off. It's like you are saying to PS, "Forget about that translating from a neutral space to a device space foolishness, just send the numbers on through." In other words, "Do what non-CM does." So now your little world is uniform, but what about the world outside? If you send the images out to be printed, the printer is set up to expect sRGB (aside from the fact that you are probably loosing colors because your monitor's gamut is probably smaller than sRGB.) Of course, every time you post on the web you don't have any guarantee that even sRGB will be seen properly by viewers other than those using a CM program, but unless you convert your images back to sRGB (poor babies) they will be seen properly by nobody.

The difference is quite a bit less subtle in Photoshop vs. Firefox for me. The Photoshop version has a purple cast, and the Firefox version has a greenish cast and is more contrasty. I've never used a monitor where there was any significant difference between calibrated and uncalibrated software after profiling -- even the cheapest and nastiest old LCDs. Isn't Windows running the profile in the background? Shouldn't SRGB look relatively similar in PS and Firefox?

"btw never put your monitor profile into photoshop."

Huh? Of course you want the profile setup using your colorimeter in Photoshop (or Lightroom). That's the whole point of calibrating and why the software automatically ensures Photoshop loads it.

Am I missing your point?

Bob_McBob wrote in post #5032758
The difference is quite a bit less subtle in Photoshop vs. Firefox for me. The Photoshop version has a purple cast, and the Firefox version has a greenish cast and is more contrasty. I've never used a monitor where there was any significant difference between calibrated and uncalibrated software after profiling -- even the cheapest and nastiest old LCDs. Isn't Windows running the profile in the background? Shouldn't SRGB look relatively similar in PS and Firefox?

Windows doesn't 'run' a profile - it merely associates it with the monitor so programs like Photoshop can find it. There will always be a difference between colour managed applications and non colour managed ones. How big a difference depends on the characteristics of the monitor, and how critically you are looking for it. The example shown in this thread doesn't look so far out that it indicates a problem. Laptop screens are notoriously difficult.

DHead wrote in post #5032912
"btw never put your monitor profile into photoshop."

Huh? Of course you want the profile setup using your colorimeter in Photoshop (or Lightroom). That's the whole point of calibrating and why the software automatically ensures Photoshop loads it.

Am I missing your point?

I'm sure that what he meant was that you should never use the monitor profile as the working colour space (which is absolutely correct). Photoshop automatically knows how to apply the monitor profile, and which one to apply - you don't have to tell it which one to use.

DHead wrote in post #5032912
"btw never put your monitor profile into photoshop."

Huh? Of course you want the profile setup using your colorimeter in Photoshop (or Lightroom). That's the whole point of calibrating and why the software automatically ensures Photoshop loads it.

Am I missing your point?

Monitor profiles are installed in the Windows control panel, but never in photoshop. Windows changes the LUT on the video card so the application shows color accurately, so long as it understands and displays profiles. The only place my monitor profile is installed is in the windows control panel.

If you have your monitor profile in PS i'd be interested to hear where you installed it, and why you did it.

Have a read in the link from my sig

I think perhaps something is not quite right here. I just installed the Firefox 3 beta and enabled colour management. Now blues all look decidedly purple. This includes the banner at the top of the page!

Well, Unless you are on Mac; most software does not have color management capability. I use FireFox 2 and there is no color management so I suspect your beta is not up to par. Ofcourse that depends on your settings. What options do you get with the color management? If you are loading your monitor profile as an output device in Firefox you essentially are loading it twice since your video card is using it. That creates a problem. Ideally your Firefox should have an output profile attached to preview output.
Monitor Profiles are unique and have both output and input capabilities so they can be used in the proof setup in Photoshop.

The Firefox beta displays colours exactly the same as in Photoshop. It applies the profile to the entire rendered page, not just the images. This site I use frequently is a lovely shade of violet with colour management enabled.

I've been doing a lot of research, and it seems the problem is to do with the way the colorimeter is generating the profile for my laptop. I've found several posts by other laptop users (MacBooks, Dells, not limited to one brand) experiencing the same problem. Unfortunately, I haven't found any solution other than using a separate monitor.

The "explanation" is that the calibration software is either having trouble with the pure blue the laptop LCD generates, or it's generating a profile that makes most of the colours accurate at the expense of the blues being very far off. The fact that the same calibration hardware works properly with external LCDs is very telling. One Apple user even mentioned dragging a photo from his Sony LCD to his MacBook and watching the blues turn purple as the calibration kicked in!

I'm in contact with a photo.net user who is having the same problem. Gretag Macbeth asked him to send in his profile, and I am supplying him my profile as well.

Interesting, so, do you have options within Firefox?
I would be interested in what CMM it is using.