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Thread started 27 Oct 2004 (Wednesday) 12:31
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timmyquest
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Oct 27, 2004 12:31 |  #1
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I was hoping after i got a soccer picture in last weeks paper that they'd at least give my football pictures a look. After seeing what they ran it's obvious they have not.

It was a good picture, sharp, full of action and all that jazz but it really had nothing to do with the game or the story.

It was a picture of our TE running with the football and the oponent chasing him. The real story of the game was the 200+ yards and 3TD's of our runningback. It wouldnt bother me at all had they used one of her photos (the lady that usually does the football pics for them) of the RB. But they didn't (which makes me think she didnt have one).

I sent them litterally 10 pictures of our RB running away from (in some cases) falling down defenders.

My question is this: After a photographer has established them selves as the "go to guy" what does it take for someone else (me) to get in on that action.

Maybe my opinion is biased ( :-) ) but these three photos would have fit much better with the retelling of the game.

http://www.questphotos​.com/football/game9/1.​jpg (external link)


http://www.questphotos​.com/football/game9/9.​jpg (external link)

http://www.questphotos​.com/football/game9/8.​jpg (external link)


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defordphoto
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Oct 27, 2004 13:10 |  #2

timmyquest wrote:
My question is this: After a photographer has established them selves as the "go to guy" what does it take for someone else (me) to get in on that action.

Death.


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timmyquest
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Oct 27, 2004 13:15 |  #3
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RFMSports wrote:
timmyquest wrote:
My question is this: After a photographer has established them selves as the "go to guy" what does it take for someone else (me) to get in on that action.

Death.

lol

...i'm laughing but i dont sense any sarcasim there ?!


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JK
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Oct 27, 2004 17:32 |  #4

ROTFLMAO! :D

Thanks Jim... I just squirted tea out of my nose...


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defordphoto
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Oct 27, 2004 19:59 |  #5

Sorry JK. :) Timmy: No sarcasm at all.


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vfilby
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Oct 27, 2004 20:00 |  #6

Hey Timmy,

Death is right! Let me vent (I probably have already but if not hree I go):

I submitted some shots to a local news office after they lost their photographer, so did one other guy. Let me list what I consider out qualifications...

Me: Decent cameras, some accesories, knowledge of how to use them, an existing portfolio, etc.

Him: No camera and a penchant for coming in daily to beg for a job.

He got the job and I did not; which is fine because I didn't really want to be hired, I wanted freelance. So now they hired this goon and I find his photos to be offensive to the term photography. Bad posing, horrible flash use (flattened look with glare on everything in the photo), B&W where 80% of the photo is pure black, etc.

Why did they hire him over me? Favourites!!! And we both applied at the same time. I demonstrated quality while he came in daily to talk to the boss and ask for a job. Well once he had the job he stopped coming in, disconnected his phone and pretended he didn't have email He has now quit and they want to hire me.... all I can say is two small words. I'll let you guys play hangman over it.


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timmyquest
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Oct 27, 2004 21:17 |  #7
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UGGGG, i never thought this would be considered a dilema!

I got a call from the paper today, they want me to go shoot the other highschools game this friday. It's playoff time...

I really would rather go to my game, but i want to get in the paper again of course and...oh noooo


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defordphoto
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Oct 27, 2004 21:39 |  #8

PJ's do not get to shoot their fave sport/team/entity. You get assigned, (period) and shoot what you're told to shoot. Not up for discussion, if you'd like your paycheck this week.

Shooting PJ is akin to boiler-plate, sweat-shop production.


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timmyquest
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Oct 27, 2004 21:42 |  #9
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RFMSports wrote:
PJ's do not get to shoot their fave sport/team/entity. You get assigned, (period) and shoot what you're told to shoot. Not up for discussion, if you'd like your paycheck this week.

Shooting PJ is akin to boiler-plate, sweat-shop production.

I've made a commitment to the other team though...i'll do whats right.


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defordphoto
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Oct 27, 2004 22:13 |  #10

That's why I like to shoot freelance.


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timmyquest
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Oct 27, 2004 22:19 |  #11
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RFMSports wrote:
That's why I like to shoot freelance.

Really i kind of am. I already told them i'm very busy with two other jobs and school. They know that.

The message on the machine said "I was wondering if you could make it" blah blha blah "Let me know".

I just dont want them to feel like they cant call me for photos, but i feel the need finish the rest of the football season with my old teamates.

The coach came up to me last week before the game, put his arm around me and said "Tim i just wanted to thank you for taking pictures this season, it really means a lot to us".

That really felt good, i've been there since the first day of practice and i fully intend on being there until the last tear has left the field. Hopefully that'll be sometime in November, but i dont think it's going to be.

My goal with getting in the paper has never really been about making money, thats why i go make pizza i make a heck of a lot more doing that belive it or not.

And actually i got a call today from the wrestling coach who heard from the football coach that i take pictures, i'm making a cool $50 to go take a quick picture of some former teamates and the coach sitting on some bikes at the local harley dearlship.

This is all moving so fast, much faster then i ever expected and maybe more then i wanted. None the less, i'm happy.


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gmen
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Oct 28, 2004 03:52 |  #12

Interesting thread guys. I'm hoping I can add a little to the mix. I can certainly understand the some of the frustrations here... so I'll just add my two pennies worth.

I'm a freelance photographer - but I've been regularly contributing to two weekly local newspapers for the last two years - they usually run between 6-8 of my photos each week of sporting events in Essex.

The papers both have staff photographers and use a pool of freelancers. The only way I managed to build my reputation was through being pro-active, professional and by building a relationship with the two sports editors in question.

I think the key word here is 'news' - with local papers in particular, it's not always the very best shot that gets published, it's the shot that fits in with the story - better still, it's the news-worthy shot that becomes the headline for the story.

Also, if I submitted as many as 10 similar photos to my editor, I'd get roasted. He simply doesn't have time to browse through that many shots of the average event. If they are going to use 2 shots from a game, I submit 5 or 6 pictures of diverse action with FULL CAPTIONS in the IPTC data. It helps the editors to have good captions as that again saves them time when putting the paper together. It also means that your images are searchable when held on file and can be used as 'stock' pictures at a later date - i.e. more potential revenue.

It's right to say that local paper photogs get assigned to events. However, if you're proactive, you can (to an extent) pick and choose the events you want to cover. I e-mail in a possible schedule for the following weekend every Monday morning based on my location, teams I regularly cover and try to include a diverse range of sports... Again this saves the editor some work and more often than not, my schedule is accepted. Bear in mind also that the staff photogs would like to have the weekend off - so a pro-active freelancer can be a good thing - as long as the paper has a reasonable budget.

I started off wanting to cover my local team but as soon as I broadened my horizons a little, it opened up a good market for me.The more venues and sports you can cover, the more business cards you can hand out, the more people that see your face, the more opportunities there are to sell those other shots that the paper doesn't use. And, like I said above, those other shots are likely to be your 'better' ones!

If you take a look at my website www.tgsphoto.co.uk (external link) you can get an idea of the kind of events I've been covering recently.

The key point is to keep plugging away, the opportunities will come - don't submit too many shots, caption them well, think 'news' and be proactive.

Good luck!


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timmyquest
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Oct 28, 2004 07:23 |  #13
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Also, if I submitted as many as 10 similar photos to my editor, I'd get roasted. He simply doesn't have time to browse through that many shots of the average event. If they are going to use 2 shots from a game, I submit 5 or 6 pictures of diverse action with FULL CAPTIONS in the IPTC data.

What if the only thing that happened in the game was our team running the ball play after play.

It is a local paper, even when we lose they will not run a photo of the other team as the subject.


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gmen
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Oct 28, 2004 12:35 |  #14

timmyquest wrote:
What if the only thing that happened in the game was our team running the ball play after play.

It is a local paper, even when we lose they will not run a photo of the other team as the subject.

I won't pretend to be an expert on American Football since I usually shoot our round-ball version of the game! My point was just that if I ended up with 10 similar photos, I'd only submit a couple of them.

Obviously the local paper will always want the local team to be the main subject of the pictures (win or lose)... and, during 60 mins, 80 mins or 90 mins of a game, there's usually plenty of time to shoot several different players in different types of action. OK - not always - but most times! Sometimes, if I'm covering 3 or 4 fixtures in a day, I only get 30 minutes or so at each venue to get some worthwhile images - and I won't deny that can be tricky.

Stay positive and keep shooting, they'll need you sooner than later!


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CyberDyneSystems
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Oct 28, 2004 13:20 |  #15

Seems to me like your setting yourself up to loose out on this one.

Your Coach isn't going to be getting you many more freelance news jobs.. its the Paper that has potential for your future photography, if in fact you are really interested in it.

Your looking at a lot of opportunity with disdaine IMHO..

Take for example this thread.

Even when you ask a question here on the forum.. if you don't seem to agree 100% with the repsonse.. no matter how well thought out it is and no matter what expeerience is brought to the table.. rather than except the expeirience for what it is.. there is allways a further disclaimer/excuse/expl​anation.

You give the impression that the answers are never valid to you..
Gmen's point re: the number of photos one should submit, and how,.. this is some of the best pro journalism advice I have seen on this forum. In fact that post should be printed and framed.

You pretty much dismiss it with the excuse that it is simply a "local paper".. "nothing really happened in the game" .. etc..

Sounds a lot like "He's just a frail old man"
Why allways the disclaimers?

You asked for opinions on what you should do. The Pros have chimed in saying what they think is the correct path,.

...you are going to stick with the coach though.

It's not that I think you should do what people tell you.. but that it seems that you never had the intention of listening to the reponse anyways.. again with Gmen's post.. you simply could NOT possibly get a better thought out more informative post on the subject at hand...

This is a missed opportunity.
This MAY be the last time your paper ever calls. (sure you may get a second chance but who knows)

And not being willing to learn from the likes of the poeple that are taking time to respond to your questions is a missed opportunity as well.

I am often left wondering why you ask in the first place?

Sorry,. just my view on it.
CDS

P.S.

Why not shoot half of each game if they are the same day?


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