Wedding lens and flash.. please help!

Well, yeah Doc you're right about that....... but isn't that the sort of thing that puts ideas into young bride's heads as far as their expectations go? They do show some nice candid stuff too.

DocFrankenstein wrote in post #5142163
Bridal magazines?

Wow. The stuff I've seen in bridal magazines is shot in studio with some awesome light.

sapearl wrote in post #5142311
Well, yeah Doc you're right about that....... but isn't that the sort of thing that puts ideas into young bride's heads as far as their expectations go? They do show some nice candid stuff too.

You got a point. I agree too, the bridal magazine stuff IS nice.

I guess you've laid the facts out pretty well then - if they can't afford a pro then they can't. So the next thing for you to do then is to pay close attention to the good shooting advice that's been offered here. Reread it. Don't get hung up on the gear. Read and practice, practice, practice.

Btw - I may have missed this in all the posts, but when is the wedding?

Gurry wrote in post #5142188
i know what it means, just forgot, sorry, i can tell her, but its her choice. i appreciate the advice and help, but please no more telling me not to do it, like i said, i can tell her what you guys just said, but its her choice, but i came here for advice on lens, and maybe some help on taking photos and what not, not to be talked out of it.
also, yes they have spent every penny they have to get married, after they just bought a house, he is working a 2nd job plowing just to help pay for it, and now my dad is in more debt because he had to chip in. so hiring a pro is a lot more for them. but i can still tell her all of this.

Got that right - heck, I drool over a lot of that technique too .

DocFrankenstein wrote in post #5142324
You got a point. I agree too, the bridal magazine stuff IS nice.

sebr wrote in post #5139101
- check the wedding forum here to get some photo ideas. https://photography-on-the.net/forum/forumdis​play.php?f=78

That forum used to have good experienced pro's... not so much any more.

Gurry wrote in post #5139716
well im for sure getting the 430ex, unless the 580 comes up to a really cheap price. and for memory i have a 2g, and a spare 512mb. will the sigma 70-300 f4-5.6 come in handy or usefull at all, and where? what about the kit lens? and im thinking that i might pick up a sigma 28-70mm f2.8-4 DG.
also, whats the different, with lens's when the sigma box has a red stripe on it, or a tan colour strip?

2Gb is NOT ENOUGH memory. I take 24GB of memory to a wedding, and last weekend myself and my 2nd shooter used most of it. You HAVE to shoot RAW, even if you don't know how to process it right now it will make your life so much easier later. Go buy an 8GB card, they're cheap. Test it well before the wedding.

Phil Light wrote in post #5140924
I don't mean to divert this thread but Tim, since you do much of your professional shooting at higher ISOs, do you ever use noise reduction software? Or do you not like it? I'd be interested to hear any of the wedding pro opinions on this. I like it for many high ISO shots but sometimes depending on the subject and the mood I actually kind of like a little bit of noise.

I have noise ninja pro, but I don't like the look of the image after noise reduction software. It can also be called detail reduction software. In my years shooting weddings professionally I've never had a single customer comment about ISO noise, in files or in print. Sometimes I add noise.

yea i guess i should have stated when the wedding is, its april 26th, just over a month to go.. i know time is ticking and priceless for me. so, so far on the list as far as buying goes, at least 8 gb card, to go with the 2g, and prob not worth throwing in the 512, but back up like that doesn't hurt, and the 430ex flash, just not sure on a lens or what, some people say dont buy a lens, some people say zoom lens, some people say wide angle lens. hard to choose with all these idea's and peoples preferences. but i know for sure, about the flash and now the card. thanks. and well, one of the most important things on top of the whole list, Practice, read, practice, practice, read some more, and umm practice? lol

also ive been looking on e-bay for pricing and what not, anyone know any good stores online that have good prices and that ship to canada ontario?

Gurry, from now until 4/26/08 are there any places or situations where you can practice with your camera? Is anybody having a birthday party, anniversary, christening, bar mitzvah, or social event or function that would provide a good shooting opportunity for you? Shoot these RAW and that will give you a partial taste of what you'll encounter at the wedding.

Regarding lenses - you can easily get away with two. Something that will give you good wide angle coverage for groups in tight spots, and maybe a moderate telephoto for portraits and candids. Actually, you can do most of the wedding quite easily with a zoom that also gives you good WA coverage.

Gurry, maybe I missed it in the thread, but there is one thing that I want to mention.

If you are forced to use direct flash, there is nothing, that I know of, short of bouncing off walls ect. that will help the quality of the photos more than using a flash bracket. You need one however, that allows the camera to rotate, thus always placing the flash above the lens. And I do mean exactly above the lens.

This lighting will have the following advantages:

The reflection of flash in eye glasses, if seen at all, will be at the top, allowing the eyes to be seen.

The light coming from slightly above is more flattering to the face. This will also be true if you bounce the flash and use a bounce card attached.

The shadows will not be as noticable, because the flash, being directly above the lens, will cast the shadow behind the subject.

If you can budget for one of these, with the cable to get the flash off your camera and on top of the bracket, this will be money very well spent now and for years to come.

This is my opinion, others may vary.

Best wishes, Don

don, what is all needed for that? flash, tripod for flash, and a cord to make the flash work? ive also seen ones with i guess a sensor? that goes off with out a cord??

sapearl, actually there isnt anything until then witch really sucks!, but i can start shooting anything really, people, dogs, but im really leaning towards getting this flash really soon so i can get used to it, also, what are some things, say i had to maybe use the flash head on? do those diffusers work at all to soften it up?

My $0.02 on flash brackets is that I have one in a cupboard somewhere but i'm not sure where, I haven't touched it in a year. I used it when I was a beginner and didn't know better, because people told me I should. Maybe they were right, but as my style evolved I found it unnecessary. The only advantage I find with a flash bracket is the elimination of side shadow, I find the quality of light the same as without one - always average with direct flash. For Gurry I suggest you don't worry about it - bounce the flash or use ambient light. Actually you should bounce the light from the flash not the actual flash, they don't take well to bouncing...

Gurry, you need a 17-55 F2.8 IS, if the budget won't do that then a 17-50 F2.8, 18-50 F2.8, or something in that range. You can take every single wedding photo with that lens and a 430EX flash.

Order this book and this book, or borrow them from a library if you can find them. Find a church you can practice in with a friend, using ambient light. Then go practice in the locations your sister wants photos taken. My suggestion for group photos is outside the church, and for portraits of the wedding party find somewhere with a green background - trees are good. Be careful there are no trees growing out of peoples heads - it's easy to miss on a wedding day when you're rushed. Use Av mode and fill flash outside, F2.8 or F3.5 for single/double person shots, F5.6 for wedding party shots maybe, and F8 for big group shots. Av with flash off works best for me - the flash can only illuminate the front of a large group anyway, unless you're directly above them.

Still being a flash amateur....this has been my experience so far.

Sto-fen omni bounce on a Sigma 500 DG ST flash and a Canon 430 EX with a http://abetterbounceca​rd.com/ attached to it.

I watched Peter Greggs video on his better bounce card site and ordered some of the bands. I then went to wal-mart and found the styrofoam type paper he uses and made me some "a better bounce card". I used this setup at the last wedding. Outdoors was just the flash head on in aperture mode for fill flash and to get the catch light in the eyes. Indoors used the better bounce card as in his video with the flash straight up. The ceilings were moderatly high, but mostly white and not to bad. I set the camera to Tv mode and 1/60 of a sec with I believe iso 400 or 800. This put my XTi and 17-55 lens to f/2.8 probably 90 percent of the shots as it was pretty dimly lit after sunset.

Comparing the two set ups...the 430 with the better bounce card worked better for me at least. Instead of buying his kits or bands, you can use a rubber band and a white 3x5 index card. I have read a lot on these forums and it seems alot of people recommend the white index card trick over the fancy diffusers. And it alot cheaper than the flash brackets and off shoe cords. Those might be better, havent used one before so don't know.

I use the white card in the 580EX, for a 430EX I borrowed once I put a business card on the flash head with a rubber band that worked just as well. I own a half dozen different diffusers but I don't use any of them.

Gurry, I don't know if this has already been said but if I were you I might at least be tempted to tell the B & G that weddings are a serious challenge for even a professional photographer and please don't expect anything more than just the average snapshots from you. Now you've set expectations low and if that's what you get it's at least what they're expecting. Then if you do manage to get some really nice shots they'll be thrilled with your work. Set expectations low and then try to pleasantly surprise them.

yea good call phil, as for the diffusers i was talking more of the ones i see on e-bay that are like a white or clear cover for the flash for like $5

Bill Ng wrote in post #5141013
Your average church is much too large to bounce any light around in, you need a wall or ceiling within a few feet (3 at most)

Well that's a bunch of hoo-hah. Your average church doesn't allow flash but it's certainly not too large, and you most definitely don't need a ceiling or wall within 3 feet.