Another D3 Review misses important points!

Guys cameras are just tools. I don't get the blind brand loyalty and the snobery. Everyone thinks Canon and Nikon are so great..THEY BOTH ARE. Find one you like and learn to use it. Who cares if someones shooting a Nikon. It will take great photographs if the photographer takes the time to learn how to get the best out of it just like you can with your Canons. If you really want great gear sell both the Canons and Nikons and get Blads or Leicas. Then you get into an entire new level of snobbery...

I bought Canon digital because they had the only (fairly) affordable FF camera (5D) at the time. If Nikon would have beat'm to the punch or Leica would have been out of the box sooner with the M8 I might have gone with one of those.

belmondo wrote in post #5151962
This thread is really annoying. I am absolutely sick to death of people grousing about how unfairly they've been treated here. At least you're allowed to be here. Ask Ed Malone how fairly the Nikonians dealt wiht him when he tried to join as a Canon User.

For the record...

Everyone is expected to regard everyone else here with absolute respect and courtesy. You can disagree with each other, but do it fairly, and in a dignified manner. If you can't respect the forum's owners wishes in this regard, you're likely to have problems.

For the Nikon users:
You are welcome here, and your preference in brands is noted. You are absolutely encouraged to participate in the forum. We make no exclusions based on camera brand, and only ask the you respect that this is a Canon forum. Keep your remarks relevant, and don't be a zealot. This is the wrong venue for Nikon evangelism.

For the Canon users:
Get a a grip. Camera technology is a game of leapfrog, and sometimes the other guy is going to be in front. Nikon users seem to have the latest and greatest right now, if not in fact, at least arguably. That will change, again, and again.

To everyone:
We are all photographers. We are united by a common interest far more than we are divided by brand loyalty. If you can't have a civil conversation on the subject without reducing yourselves to partisan bickering, then you shouldn't be participating in these discussions.

Either keep it on a reasonably sensible level, or take it somewhere else. Go find a lovely religious discussion somewhere and take all the cheap shots you want.

I suspect I'm going to make myself very unpopular around here, but starting right now, any post that I feel isnt relevant to the discussion will be either edited as necessary, or removed altogether.

I see a lot of the same players in this discussion who completely trashed some of the earlier Mk III threads, and you already have at least one strike against you.

Now grow up.

Finally. I would lock this thread for good practice.

BEEEsH wrote in post #5152081
Finally. I would lock this thread for good practice.

Perhaps, but I'm watching a couple people that seem to show up in all the Mk III threads. Their mantra hasn't changed in almost a year now. If I lock this thread, they'll just show up in the next one and start their stupidity all over again.

It stops here.

Mr Belmondo:

Your avatar thingy is truly distracting.
Is that you in the picture?

Permagrin wrote in post #5149357
I'm glad Nikon has come out with some excellent gear and is forcing these sorts of issues, I own the M3...it's an adequate camera but I'm not thrilled with it and I SHOULD BE for the price.

I too am tired of nikon bashing.

airfrogusmc wrote in post #5151964
Guys cameras are just tools. I don't get the blind brand loyalty and the snobery. Everyone thinks Canon and Nikon are so great..THEY BOTH ARE. Find one you like and learn to use it.

jacobsen1 wrote in post #5149189
yeah, I've pretty much given up defending the D3 and left it to snir...

It's an awesome camera. Who cares who makes the sensor, I'd love to have it in my camera. They're pushing the limits much further than canon has recently and it's a great thing even if you never touch a nikon as it will lead to better cameras all around.

blonde wrote in post #5148977
i disagree, myself and a few other members have been called names and attacked many times just because we dared to say that Nikon is doing something better than Canon.

I have to agree completely with all you guys. Noink jokes, when made to poke fun, are one thing (heck I do it all the time), but some people get way too worked up and emotional about this stuff.

The D300 and D3, as well as some of Nikon's new lenses (not to mention their flash system) are absolutely brilliant. And of course there are companies like Sigma putting out new, innovative stuff all the time that really gives photographers what they want.

Surely I am not the only one that's a little annoyed at Canon's apparent complacency? I haven't seen any ground breaking innovation from them since the 20D/5D days, i.e. for YEARS. I'm more than a little frustrated with what Canon's been doing lately (not that I care too much, I love my 5D ). But the fact is, if CANON released the D3 and D300 instead of Nikon, be honest, most of us would be ALL OVER them.

Nikon used to be king. Innovation and risk-taking pushed Canon ahead in the digital age. It won't always stay that way, especially at this rate. Nikon has not only caught up in some respects, in many ways, they've surpassed.

pieq314 wrote in post #5148642
I look at it this way:

If you try to say Nikon is worse or Canon is better in a Nikon forum, you would be kicked out in no time.

But in a Canon forum, you can say good things about Nikon without being kicked out.

That is, Canon users are more objective than Nikon users.

i believe that to be true. in the bicycle world campagnolo is the nikon equivalent and in watches it's rolex.

i wish the mods would kill the threads about the d3 so the nikon lovers and their symps would take their crap elsewhere.

i'm really oblivious to what nikon makes and could not care less and really don't want or need to keep reading about it HERE...

ed rader

Not to add Fuel to the fire..

I love my D300, And I really don't think the 40D or 5D Holds anything to it.. Sorry! But when I went into my local camera shop to upgrade from the 30d to the 5, I was really enticed to look at the D300, Glad I did..


BTW... TooManyHobbies, What points were missed in the initial post?

ItsMike wrote in post #5153068
Not to add Fuel to the fire..

I love my D300, And I really don't think the 40D or 5D Holds anything to it.. Sorry! But when I went into my local camera shop to upgrade from the 30d to the 5, I was really enticed to look at the D300, Glad I did..


BTW... TooManyHobbies, What points were missed in the initial post?

awesome... i'll be sure to pick up the d300 when i want to get a nice FF camera

mzivtins wrote in post #5153089
awesome... i'll be sure to pick up the d300 when i want to get a nice FF camera

Well to be honest, FF or Crop doe not mean the world to me. Not to burst your bubble, the 5D imho was not all that great. For $2400 I thought I was going to get more..

What I was after was how well the camera handles noise.. And the D300 (With High ISO noise removal off) Blew the 5D and 40D away. I went there with my laptop and spent about 1.5 hrs testing all three.. Most of the shooting I do require my to bump up to 1600 or better, Having the option to shoot at 6400 with the quality of my old 30D at 1600 was worth the upgrade to me..

ItsMike wrote in post #5153068
Not to add Fuel to the fire..

I love my D300, And I really don't think the 40D or 5D Holds anything to it.. Sorry! But when I went into my local camera shop to upgrade from the 30d to the 5, I was really enticed to look at the D300, Glad I did..

You may not mean to, but its really what you're doing. The thread topic is about a D3 review, not about D300's as how it compares to the 30D and the 5D. Glad you like you're camera, but you really are just adding fuel to the fire here.

ItsMike wrote in post #5153117
Well to be honest, FF or Crop doe not mean the world to me. Not to burst your bubble, the 5D imho was not all that great. For $2400 I thought I was going to get more..

What I was after was how well the camera handles noise.. And the D300 (With High ISO noise removal off) Blew the 5D and 40D away. I went there with my laptop and spent about 1.5 hrs testing all three.. Most of the shooting I do require my to bump up to 1600 or better, Having the option to shoot at 6400 with the quality of my old 30D at 1600 was worth the upgrade to me..

With respect you are comparing a brand new camera from Nikon to a 2 year old camera from Canon. What do you expect? Of course the Nikon is going to be superior in some areas.

Technology changes very quickly. That doesn't mean the 5D is now worthless, far from it. It is still is the only "affordable" full frame camera until Canon (or Nikon) produce something to take it's place.

I fully respect that the D300 may be the best option for you at the present time, that is your choice, but you really are not comparing like to like and yet the tone of your post (whether meant or not) implies that you are.

Be happy with what you have, you don't need to justify it to anyone.

Bikers vs Mods
Canon vs Nikon

jsut the same, but a few years on haha

ItsMike wrote in post #5153068
Not to add Fuel to the fire..

BTW... TooManyHobbies, What points were missed in the initial post?

My comments are posted under Jeff Miller at the bottom of the review. But here they are....

Jeff Miller, March 19, 2008; 11:26 A.M.
OK Review, but like many others misses some important points when comparing to the Canons. I do have the Canon 1Ds and 1D and Nikon film cameras. I have friends with the D3. The D3 is a great compromise between the 2 Canons for the price but is not either one. Important things left out of the D3 comparison to the 1D... 1. Frame rate compared, but not number of captured frames in burst! And do you get what they claim. 2. D3 has low temperature issues 3. Battery life 4. Professional support programs 5. Noise should never be compared without fine detail. Anyone can completely remove noise with processing, but it's how much detail you lose that's important. 6. Higher ISO in camera is nice, but RAW files can get higher ISO's by changing exposure settings during conversion if not available in camera. At ISO's that high, I would hope you would be doing some post production noise removal anyway, so in camera higher ISO level adjustments not so important.

Its seems people in this thread have gone on a Nikon/Canon rampage instead of noticing how important factors are consistently left out of reviews when comparing. That was the original point of this thread. Review comparisons that always leave out the important stuff and just quote the manufacter specs with some little trial of equipment.

1. Frame rate compared, but not number of captured frames in burst! And do you get what they claim.

The 1D3 is higher, yes.
2. D3 has low temperature issues

Far from certain - aside from ONE report there are no issues I;m aware of. There are, however, many reports of D3 in use with no issues at low temps

3. Battery life

What about it? No complaints whatsoever.

4. Professional support programs

What about them? No complaints whatsoever. NPS supports just as well as CPS (and I'm e member of both).

5. Noise should never be compared without fine detail.

No it shouldn't, but I'm not sure why this is drummed out again and again. The D3 has no issues with detail as long as NR isn't set to Norm or High.

radiohead wrote in post #5154679
1. Frame rate compared, but not number of captured frames in burst! And do you get what they claim.

The 1D3 is higher, yes.
2. D3 has low temperature issues

Far from certain - aside from ONE report there are no issues I;m aware of. There are, however, many reports of D3 in use with no issues at low temps

3. Battery life

What about it? No complaints whatsoever.

4. Professional support programs

What about them? No complaints whatsoever. NPS supports just as well as CPS (and I'm e member of both).

5. Noise should never be compared without fine detail.

No it shouldn't, but I'm not sure why this is drummed out again and again. The D3 has no issues with detail as long as NR isn't set to Norm or High.

Theres another thread that says the D3 is superior by two whole boosts ove rthe 1ds mkIII! we all know the correct exposure really really makes you get the usable high ISO results. maybe metering is not very accurate in the 1ds? i know i find my 5d annoying sometimes that i just ignor it completely.