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Thread started 23 Mar 2008 (Sunday) 17:56
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How to sell unsolicited photos to parents?

 
dcsmith40D
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Mar 23, 2008 17:56 |  #1

I went to take pictures of a baseball game the other night. I didn't even know if a game was scheduled or who might be playing. As it turned out I knew one of the parents. He said take some pictures of my son and I'll pay you for them. I said you don't have to pay me... There were quite a few keepers.

That got me thinking. What parent wouldn't love to have pictures of there child in action?

The next day, yesterday, I went to shoot my nephew's lacrosse game. The mothers were excited, pointing out their sons for me to photograph. They may not have spoken to me at all if I hadn't been talking to my sister-in law. I took maybe 250 to 300 pictures. They looked pretty good. Not always the best shots but pretty clear. I showed them to my sister-in law and (coach) brother-in law. They started encouraging me to sell the pictures to the parents. I don't really know how. My brother-in law suggested there is a way to upload them to the web for viewing and that I would pass out card to the parents at the game.

I don't know how to accomplish that without them just taking what ever they wanted for free. I would like to be able to help pay for some of the equipment by selling some of the pictures.

Would you folks be so gracious as to help me come up with a plan? I would appreciate any help.


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Jim ­ G
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Mar 23, 2008 17:59 |  #2

Perhaps check out a website like Smugmug or similar and use that to broadcast yourself?


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Gatorboy
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Mar 23, 2008 18:00 |  #3

1. Get some web space
2. Purchase Photo Cart (external link)
3. Get T-shirts with your domain name on it.
4. Shoot away, upload and sell.


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tomd
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Mar 23, 2008 18:01 |  #4

https://photography-on-the.net/forum/showthre​ad.php?t=377273

This thread has some good info.


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jeffscra
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Mar 23, 2008 19:09 |  #5

I was in the same boat last year with my daughter playing softball. I had to get the leagues permission to take and post pictures of the kids. So they approved, I put them up on my Smugmug site, password protected them, and then at the games, I handed out a card to the parents with the link to the days action. They could purchase what they wanted from the website. I shot about 400 pictures in each of the 9 games and posted them. All the parents loved the pictures. I'm not sure if its because I am in a very rural town but all the parents liked them but only to look at. Nobody bought anything. So I was a little discouraged about the whole thing.




  
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poloman
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Mar 23, 2008 20:05 |  #6

I do this for equine events.
I post my photos with the longest side 800 pixels.
I use zenfolio premium and have it apply a water mark to every image.
If you don't use watermarks a mildly savvy individual can copy the image file. Some won't try.....many don't know the copyright laws and will try.
Make it clear that you intend to sell the photos and be very personable.


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dcsmith40D
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Mar 23, 2008 21:23 |  #7

I'm real green with dslr. I may be getting a little ahead of myself. Before Friday night, two days ago, I didn't even know I could take nice actions pictures. Two events later, one baseball game and one lacrosse game, and I'm "ready" to sell my goods. After reading several posts tonight, I went to join smugmug to post the pictures and try to sell. My wife made it known that she didn't think it was right to post pictures of the kids I took pictures of on the net in order to sell them. She thought it was a little weird. I never thought of it as weird; however, it is other people's children and without their permission. Now, I don't know what to do.


Canon 40D; 50 f1.8, 70-200 f2.8 IS L, 580 EX II, 1.4 TC, 24-70 f2.8 L, (2) 430 EX II

David

  
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jb_browneyes
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Mar 23, 2008 21:33 |  #8

this ones a bit long, but given your situation you should probably read through the whole thing. very good marketing ideas in here
https://photography-on-the.net/forum/showthre​ad.php?t=469328


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Mike ­ R
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Mar 23, 2008 22:16 |  #9

I shoot sports for 2 high schools. As others have said, you need a web site to post them on and for parents to be able to easily view and order them. I use Exposure Manager and am very happy with their quality and customer service, along with design flexibility
Feel free to check it out. Remember to get professional looking business cards and to have the web site listed on it. You won't get rich shooting only HS Sports but it will pay for gear and more.Also try to find out what others charge in your region and stay in line with those prices. PM me if you have any questions, for some reason I no longer get notified when there is a response to a thread I subscribed to.


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Tumeg
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Mar 24, 2008 11:59 |  #10

You could use smugmug, $150/yr (If you want to chose your prices) and then they can buy prints directly from smugmug.... OR you can upload them to flickr (Get a pro account, $25/yr, so people can't steal the photos) and for each game, make a set, and then hand out cards with your flickr url on it, and then they will either have to figure out how to get to their kid's game's set, or you can explain it to them on the back of the card...


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amfoto1
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Mar 24, 2008 16:01 |  #11

www.printroom.com (external link)

$99 a year plus a small percentage of whatever you charge for prints. It's geared for exactly this sort of thing. You get to spend your time shooting... Rather than maintaining a big website, collecting payments (including sales taxes, which you need to send to local/state gov't regularly), dealing with credit cards (which costs a lot of money to do), making quality prints, packaging and shipping them out.

I leave all the money collecting and order fulfillment up to Printroom!

Plus through them I can offer my customers around 65 sizes and finishes of photos (which is actually only about 2/3 of what they offer) as well as a selection of about 25 other items like key chains, coffee mugs, coasters, puzzles, calendars, etc.

To offer this many choices at home would mean a huge investment in supplies and equipment, not to mention learning how to use it all quickly and efficiently!

You'll still need to edit your shots, organize them and upload thumbnails. Printroom provides software that handles creating the thumbnails and uploading them, and manages your galleries online, as well as your images on your computer.

A couple years ago we used SmugMug and the prints weren't good. I have heard from folks recently that they are much improved, though.

There are more features to Printroom, such as means of tracking traffic to your site, but the above are the most important, I think.

There are other companies that offer similar services to Printroom, some of which seem quite good and might do as well.

Get a good, fast workflow and backup in place, ASAP.

For each venue where you might shoot, find out who is the organizing authority, get with them to find out if they have any agreement in place with another commercial photographer already. If so, you can't shoot there and sell the images. If not, sign a contract with them as the exclusive commercial shooter of their events for a year (or whatever). I will not photograph events where I'm not given the exclusive, period. It's just not worth it! In exchange, allow the organizer to use some your photos as a way of saying thanks, and position your online galleries as a convenience for their participants and attendees to browse, with picture purchases optional.

Regarding your concerns about putting the photos out online for anyone to see, this is an important consideration. However, it's not weird, nor is it really your concern. No doubt the event organizer has an injury waiver signed by the parent of each child, before they can participate. They should also be including a clause about photos being taken at the event and made publicly accessible (published, as in posted on the Internet where anyone can view them). This is getting to be a standard clause in the waiver forms at all the events I work with. If not, I certainly would encourage the organizer to include it! It covers them, more than me. No, I don't use passwords on event galleries, anymore than someone would need "a password" to walk up and sit down on the bleachers to watch the event.

Regarding image theft... Just don't put larger than thumbnails online, then there's really not much for people to rip off!

If the organizer has a web page, get them to post a link to your photo galleries on it. This is critical to help drive traffic and sales. Again, allow them to use some of your photos, such as on their web page.

We also sometimes offer onsite printing (for those impulse buyers in the heat of the moment!). This usually doubles sales for most events. People forget to go to your online galleries later, lose your biz card, etc. If you rely only on online sales, I think you leave about half the money on the table uncollected.

However, there's a cost to offering onsite printing, at larger events. First, you need someone to handle the sales and printing for you, because you'll be busy shooting. At a minimum you need computer equipment and a printer, some chairs, a table or two, and perhaps a popup tent. You'll need to print out thumbnail catalogs on the spot for people to look through, or provide a second computer monitor (or several) for them to review your images. A dye sub printer is fastest, but ones that can handle 8x10 aren't cheap. We make do with inkjet, and charge a small premium even though online images have had more editing and tweaking done. We only offer 4x6, 5x7 and 8x10 glossy prints onsite.

You have to weigh the fact that you might double your sales, against the cost of setting up to print onsite.

Later, when editing, do printout thumbnail catalogs of the images, organized exactly the same way your images are online. Take these with you to subsequent events. People love to look through them and often place orders.

I'm looking into an onsite "virtual kiosk", which is more of a self-service set up. It will involve a computer server and several satellites with monitors where people can view thumbnails of the day's shoot (added throughout the day, still working on the workflow for this, though). They can then place an order themselves right on the spot, which is fulfilled later through Printroom. Initially this would probably be in conjunction with onsite printing, but eventually perhaps it could replace it entirely. Of course, there's some cost involved in this, so it's not something anyone should jump into right away!

You probably won't get rich, but it can be a lot of fun and can generate some revenues to buy a new lens or something neat like that. Oh, and someone mentioned being disappointed in sales... well, frankly I think a lot of people are feeling the pinch of gasoline and milk costs, and just being cautious right now. So, sales have been soft the past 6 months or so, but this will vary from one place to the next.

Finally, if you find established event photographers working in you area, it might be a good idea to work with one and learn the business as a second shooter, before jumping in with both feet and possibly going over your head in the proverbial deep end.

It sounds like you have an potentially untapped market, so after you check around for any direct competition before investing too much effort or money, I say go for it!


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EnronRocks
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Mar 24, 2008 17:20 |  #12

Ah, my bread and butter. Sports photographs that parents buy....

Here is the list of things to do.

1) Get a Zenfolio and or SmugMug account (I use Zenfolio and love every minute of it).

2) Get to know the kids; find out who plays the most within the first period/quarter of the game/events. Find out who is a ball hog, find out who has a big ego, these kids tend to be only children and their parents buy em up like crazy.

3) Get your name around, hand out business cards, if it is a pay to get in type deal, go to FedEx Kinko's and get some flyer's made for people to pick up when purchasing admission.

4) DO NOT PRINT YOURSELF! God please don't, use an offsite printer that does it professionally. Be it a Walgreen's in your area, or Ez Prints or a online printer. You will find yourself wasting money on ink and paper, print at home unless you have a dye sub printer is pure ignorance.

5) DO NOT DUE PRINT AND SALES ON LOCATION UNLESS YOU HAVE THE MAN POWER AND EQUIPMENT! I have only done this once at a basketball tournament. We shot the pictures and gave our CF cards to a friend of mine that just cropped them as they came in, all I had to do is buy him food, which at a college arena it also broke my wallet. What he did was he would crop them and upload them to Walgreen via the photo feature on their website, within 30 minutes using 1 hour printing our photos were done and I ran to pick them up when he sent me a text. We had 2 photographers in the gym and my friend at the computer, next time I do this I will get someone I know to go get the pictures for me as well. This was a good idea, but only because we had the man power and a Walgreens (Which I consider to be somewhat professional at printing) less than 5-10 minutes away there and back.

7) When you do on site prints, print em all. Print ones that look good to you, try to spend as little time as possible cropping and all that jazz. With the cost of printing and your sale prince you will make enough with the loss of prints not sold.

8 ) Get to know the athletic direct/organizer of the sports event beforehand. Always plan ahead! Send a email saying you will not charge per hour, but will charge per print sold. People love this, which is what you are doing now.

9) Another problem with on site prints if you choose to have a printer there chugging out prints, you need to realize how much dust and what the environment is like. If you are doing this outdoors, good luck with an ink jet, the dust and dirt would be terrible.

10) If it is in a public venue and you see another photographer, do not try to make enemies with him/her. Talk to them, let them know that this is just a hobby and make them think you are taking pictures because you know someone that is on the team. You have every right to be there just as he/she does.

11) Be sure you have enough batteries and CF cards for the entire event. I always take my laptop and external drive and stop dumping photos while there during team swaps, breaks, and warm-ups. Sometimes I have enough time to grab something to eat/drink.

12) Try to have other photographers in your area you know and trust on call just in case you're a too sick to stand up all day. You can then do cropping and such while they shoot, split profits 50/50, sometimes this is a good idea and other times it is not.

13) Keep in mind at some events you do not have to do online prints, just hand out business cards with your future Zenfolio (They kick a**) address on it and have people come to your site to order. If you do get a Zenfolio or SmugMug, get a domain so they do not see the smugmug.com or zenfolio.com crap on your business card.

I am done for now.....


Name: Garrett
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izatt82
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Mar 24, 2008 18:21 |  #13

EnronRocks wrote in post #5182394 (external link)
Ah, my bread and butter. Sports photographs that parents buy....

Here is the list of things to do.

1) Get a Zenfolio and or SmugMug account (I use Zenfolio and love every minute of it).

2) Get to know the kids; find out who plays the most within the first period/quarter of the game/events. Find out who is a ball hog, find out who has a big ego, these kids tend to be only children and their parents buy em up like crazy.

3) Get your name around, hand out business cards, if it is a pay to get in type deal, go to FedEx Kinko's and get some flyer's made for people to pick up when purchasing admission.

4) DO NOT PRINT YOURSELF! God please don't, use an offsite printer that does it professionally. Be it a Walgreen's in your area, or Ez Prints or a online printer. You will find yourself wasting money on ink and paper, print at home unless you have a dye sub printer is pure ignorance.

5) DO NOT DUE PRINT AND SALES ON LOCATION UNLESS YOU HAVE THE MAN POWER AND EQUIPMENT! I have only done this once at a basketball tournament. We shot the pictures and gave our CF cards to a friend of mine that just cropped them as they came in, all I had to do is buy him food, which at a college arena it also broke my wallet. What he did was he would crop them and upload them to Walgreen via the photo feature on their website, within 30 minutes using 1 hour printing our photos were done and I ran to pick them up when he sent me a text. We had 2 photographers in the gym and my friend at the computer, next time I do this I will get someone I know to go get the pictures for me as well. This was a good idea, but only because we had the man power and a Walgreens (Which I consider to be somewhat professional at printing) less than 5-10 minutes away there and back.

7) When you do on site prints, print em all. Print ones that look good to you, try to spend as little time as possible cropping and all that jazz. With the cost of printing and your sale prince you will make enough with the loss of prints not sold.

8 ) Get to know the athletic direct/organizer of the sports event beforehand. Always plan ahead! Send a email saying you will not charge per hour, but will charge per print sold. People love this, which is what you are doing now.

9) Another problem with on site prints if you choose to have a printer there chugging out prints, you need to realize how much dust and what the environment is like. If you are doing this outdoors, good luck with an ink jet, the dust and dirt would be terrible.

10) If it is in a public venue and you see another photographer, do not try to make enemies with him/her. Talk to them, let them know that this is just a hobby and make them think you are taking pictures because you know someone that is on the team. You have every right to be there just as he/she does.

11) Be sure you have enough batteries and CF cards for the entire event. I always take my laptop and external drive and stop dumping photos while there during team swaps, breaks, and warm-ups. Sometimes I have enough time to grab something to eat/drink.

12) Try to have other photographers in your area you know and trust on call just in case you're a too sick to stand up all day. You can then do cropping and such while they shoot, split profits 50/50, sometimes this is a good idea and other times it is not.

13) Keep in mind at some events you do not have to do online prints, just hand out business cards with your future Zenfolio (They kick a**) address on it and have people come to your site to order. If you do get a Zenfolio or SmugMug, get a domain so they do not see the smugmug.com or zenfolio.com crap on your business card.

I am done for now.....


yeah i am going to look into something like this, see what going on for the summer. good ideas by the way


Chris
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S.Horton
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Mar 24, 2008 18:27 |  #14

dcsmith40D wrote in post #5177072 (external link)
I'm real green with dslr. I may be getting a little ahead of myself. Before Friday night, two days ago, I didn't even know I could take nice actions pictures. Two events later, one baseball game and one lacrosse game, and I'm "ready" to sell my goods. After reading several posts tonight, I went to join smugmug to post the pictures and try to sell. My wife made it known that she didn't think it was right to post pictures of the kids I took pictures of on the net in order to sell them. She thought it was a little weird. I never thought of it as weird; however, it is other people's children and without their permission. Now, I don't know what to do.

Ask the coach to introduce you to the league coordinator.

Offer to do a fund raising event.

Get signed, make it official.

Post some photos here for C&C, perhaps?


Sam - TF Says Ishmael
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Want your title changed?Dream On! (external link)

:cool:

  
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EnronRocks
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Mar 24, 2008 18:40 |  #15

When I recommend offsite printing I am saving your from this......

IMAGE: http://i240.photobucket.com/albums/ff250/68Whiskey/Forum%20Images/IMG_0007.jpg

200 USPS Mail Envelopes, 100 Extreme Shipment 100 Standard Mail. I will go through these in 2-3 months. I also charge extra to do this, but people like it because I preview the prints and quality of the print before shipping. I hate doing it though, I have to print them, pack them, print out shipping labels from www.USPS.com (external link) and I do one drop off per week of envelopes to the post office. It is a pain in my a**.

It does not cost money to send them, you get the envelopes for free and they are a base rate shipping cost because you can not fit much in there. It costs around $16.00 next day for a envelope and around $4.60 for standard mail. So it is easy to give a shipping cost to people.

Name: Garrett
Visit My Website (external link) and My Gallery (external link).
AIM - EnronRocks

  
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How to sell unsolicited photos to parents?
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