shooting outside sports in manual...?

since my kids are playing Tee ball now I want to try the manual modes. Ive read post after post on here and im trying to get a basic starting point. I know I need a shutter speed of 1/300 or higher, probably 1/500 to make sure the action freezes when they swing the bat. But where should I put the aperture? Wide open at 1.8(50mm 1.8 lens)? Or does that just depend on how sharp I want the background. Also, when in manual, whats best to meter off? Would I want to meter off my palm since i will focus on the faces of the players, or meter off the BG? So the pro's on here, whats the average scenario on a sunny day? Also, would I keep the ISO low since its sunny, say maybe 400? I know indoors you want roughly 1600 ISO to help with light

thanks in advance and sorry for all the questions.. i love to learn and this is a learning experience

The good news is that on a bright sunny day you can make decisions about aperture and ISO that are not based on scratching like hell just to get adequate shutter speed.

I would personally start by picking an aperture that is fast enough to blow out the background (make it OOF) but slow enough that I have a good chance of hitting focus. A lens like the 50/1.8 is not super great wide open and not super accurate either so I might go for f/4 as an opener.

Next I'm going to pick a shutter speed. Try 1/1000 to start as this is sure to be fast enough for kids.

Finally, let's meter. Unfortunately your XTi lacks a spot meter so some tricks are not available. Here is one you do have. Point your camera at someone wearing white who is out in the same light as the kids. Take their picture and look at the histogram. Now adjust the ISO and the shutter speed if need be until that white garment is looking nice and bright (rightmost 5th of the histogram) but not blown out (blinking). When you hit that point you are all set.

Shoot the game and watch the histogram periodically to be sure the setting is correct and not blowing out players.

Why use M for a bright sunny day. I would suggest AV mode. Set the apeture to match the DOF you want (usually wide open) and the camera will pick the correct shutter for you. There are few situations in good light you would "need" to use complete M mode.

Typically the lowest ISO that allows you to get the shutter speed you need. So start at 100 and go up only if your shutter drops below the 1/500 you want

The problem with AV mode is that the camera cares about the background and you don't. So if the kid is stadning in front of a lighter background the camera will increase the shutter speed and underexpose the kid. Opposite if the kid stands in front of a shady tree.

Most sports shooters find that since the entire game is usually played in constant light (or at least slowly changing at dusk) it is worth spending 30 seconds to get the exposure set in M mode and know that the atheletes will be exposed correctly.

I guess it depends on your skill, camera, preference and situation.

I just use center weight or spot metering (I know OP doesn't have this)

I find AV is more appropriate in covering my sports but M is not "wrong" I was assuming the OP was fairly new based on the wording and was suggesting a good way to start.

eigga wrote in post #5176878
Why use M for a bright sunny day. I would suggest AV mode. Set the apeture to match the DOF you want (usually wide open) and the camera will pick the correct shutter for you. There are few situations in good light you would "need" to use complete M mode.

Typically the lowest ISO that allows you to get the shutter speed you need. So start at 100 and go up only if your shutter drops below the 1/500 you want

Arguably, if you don't use M to shoot sports, you should used Tv so that you have preset a certain level of action stopping, and let the aperture be the variable as your desire ffor more or less DOF is secondary to action stopping. Av might make more sense for landscape shooting, where DOF is primary and the shutter speed's action stopping is secondary.

So many Choices...

try this
https://photography-on-the.net/forum/showthre​ad.php?t=136949

https://photography-on-the.net/forum/showthre​ad.php?t=135417

from what Ive tested, about 30% more of my pictures come out better in TV mode but I think thats mainly because I control shutter so when I set that somewhat high, it must help with any shake I have. Some AV photos come out good, but it seems I'm doing better with controlling the shutter more than letting the camera choose it.

thats why I was wondering about the manual mode. Manual seems tricky because I get a few good shots, but then the shots get way overexposed and look like the sun LOL. I know its something that you have to learn and it wont come overnight

so to get someone exposed right on a sunny day, just meter a white shirt and go from there?

Probably easiest to use the palm of your hand method (need an exposure crutch), some use grass in this setting. Idea is to meter off something known in the same light as subject - say your hand in bright sun - make the adjustment to make it equal gray card (in my case I open up three clicks) and set it there. This won't work in real changing lighting like alternating significant clouds where Av is probably easier. Classic example for this is shooting racecars where the light doesn't really change but meter fooled by cars of differing colors. Other sports can be the same.

I use TV also to adjust motion blur

eigga wrote in post #5176878
Why use M for a bright sunny day.

Because as long as a cloud doesn't change anything your light rarely changes.

Unless you point the camera at the sun.

M is best suited for sunny days. This is sorta backwards actually. Shoot in M.

hdd wrote in post #5177333
from what Ive tested, about 30% more of my pictures come out better in TV mode but I think thats mainly because I control shutter so when I set that somewhat high, it must help with any shake I have. Some AV photos come out good, but it seems I'm doing better with controlling the shutter more than letting the camera choose it.

thats why I was wondering about the manual mode. Manual seems tricky because I get a few good shots, but then the shots get way overexposed and look like the sun LOL. I know its something that you have to learn and it wont come overnight

so to get someone exposed right on a sunny day, just meter a white shirt and go from there?

If you meter a white shirt, your photo will be UNDERexposed, because the meter simply takes what it sees and triest to render it with the brightness level of 18% gray.

Should just add, the times where AV orTV really might be better is if the field is half shaded or the day has really patchy clouds. Basically anything where the light falling on the players really will be changing constantly. If you shoot that in M mode you need to develop two settings (one for player in sun, one for player in shade) and then go back and forth.

Av/TV would handle such a situation fairly well.....subject to it's other usual issues. Like imagine if the player runs into the shade but is standing in front of a sunlight background. Av/Tv will always underexpose that player.

I use M for just about every sport except baseball/softball. On a bright sunny day I do not have the skill to change between the meter for the batter and the field, especially on sharply hit balls. Tee ball might not be so hard

I would suggest to start with AV or TV and work to M as a beginner. Pros need the ability to use all 3 and the knowldge to know when to use them.

eigga wrote in post #5176878
Why use M for a bright sunny day.

Very short reply.... because cameras are too stupid to handle that.
A bit longer reply... because cameras are too stupid to handle that Ok seriously... they are. With sport, it's normally about athletes. And on athletes, face is one of most important thing. Cameras (even if you use spot), take readings for surroundings too. While it might work for landscape, where you want everything to be normally lit, with sport it doesn't. With sport it doesn't really matter if background is a bit over/under exposed. Athlete is important, and with AV or TV, you let camera to decide what is best way to lit WHOLE scene. But since you are not after whole scene, you normally end up with under exposed athlete. Not to mention less then perfect conditions like snow, water etc.