At what point do you consider yourself a "Professional" photographer?

Hmm.... I think there are multiple standards... external and internal.

Lots of talk about the external standards.. so there you are.

For me, my internal standard... I'm a pro at certain things, and should be paid for them.

Horse portraits, for example, and pet portraits.

Headshots for work.. these are examples where I am comfortable and can really do much better than the photographers around me - for horses I really am the best in my area.

Weddings.. I consider myself a pro, as I can walk into about any situation/lighting and get in focus, correctly framed/exposed shots... but do I consider myself really good at it? up to some of the other work around here? oh hell no. But much better and more capable than Uncle Bob or the normal 'I got a camera for Christmas" pro.

Now kids above a certain age? Sure.. but I'm better the older they are and Seniors are fine.

Babies? I'm cursed.. little suckers are never sleeping for me and I have yet to pull off one of those beautiful sleeping basket baby poses.. I suck.

I don't make a living at this, side jobs and once a month gigs is about it.

External standards, some would say I fit, others wouldnt.

Tom Reichner wrote in post #18318309
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So, if someone has no family, can they ever be a pro, in your opinion?

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Then they support themselves with it. That is what I think and btw it has been my full time profession since graduating college in 1986. I am a photographer. I majored in it in college, I have taught it on the college level and it's my personal work/my hobby. This is what I think as you can see others think differently though I don't really think the label is all the important but if asked that is what I think.

Wonder if the OP pursued a profession in photography.

Instead of the 50% rule, I usually put the cutoff to be when you start to write "Photographer" on your tax returns.

Yep, when my Uncle Sam says so. Even if it's less than 50%, if my Uncle sees I'm getting paid, then he considers me a professional no matter what I, or others say. He's funny that way.

airfrogusmc wrote in post #18318346
Then they support themselves with it. That is what I think and btw it has been my full time profession since graduating college in 1986. I am a photographer. I majored in it in college, I have taught it on the college level and it's my personal work/my hobby. This is what I think as you can see others think differently though I don't really think the label is all the important but if asked that is what I think.

I concur with everything, except it was 1979

mcluckie wrote in post #18318665
I concur with everything, except it was 1979

Yeah would have been earlier for me but 4 years USMC then worked construction until '82 when I decided to use my veterans benefits.

Doesn't matter what you consider yourself as...its all in your clients eyes. If you deliver and act like a professional...you'll be considered a professional even if you only make 10% of your income from photography. If you can't deliver the goods and act like a buffoon, then you will be looked upon as a wannabe, even if you make 100% of your measly income from photography.

Why are photographers so hung up on the "professional" title? I don't see the person cutting my hair caring so much...why you photographers?

Hogloff wrote in post #18319633
Doesn't matter what you consider yourself as...its all in your clients eyes. If you deliver and act like a professional...you'll be considered a professional even if you only make 10% of your income from photography. If you can't deliver the goods and act like a buffoon, then you will be looked upon as a wannabe, even if you make 100% of your measly income from photography.

Why are photographers so hung up on the "professional" title? I don't see the person cutting my hair caring so much...why you photographers?

In other words...........call me what you want as long as the check clears.........

Hogloff wrote in post #18319633
Why are photographers so hung up on the "professional" title? I don't see the person cutting my hair caring so much...why you photographers?

I can answer only for myself - how other photographers feel about this may be different.

I am not "hung up" on the 'professional' title. However, it does matter to me. Why does it matter? Because it is something that I get asked on a regular basis, and I need to give an answer that is honest.

When people ask me if I am a professional, they mean different things. So, I must think about what they mean when they ask me that question, and respond accordingly.

When someone I meet casually at a local gallery's meet & greet asks me if I am a professional photographer, I would usually reply, "yes". Why would I reply this way? Because if I said, "no, I am an amateur", and then the person sees my work in a magazine and various promotional materials distributed by the local tourism boards and chambers of commerce, they would think that I had lied to them.

When I apply for a grant, and the application asks if photography is my profession, I need to dig deeper before I answer the question, because each agency offering a grant will have different views on what a professional is. Before I answer their question, I had better know exactly how they define 'professional', because that will give me the best odds of answering their question honestly and accurately.

When I go in to the local insurance agent to update my business insurance, and, while filling out the applications, the agent asks what I do professionally (what products and services my business will be offering) I need to answer accurately, so that the policy I end up with matches what my business does. I need to answer accurately and honestly so that the coverage will meet my needs, if ever I were to need to file a claim, or if ever someone were to sue me.

When I meet other wildlife photographers in the field, and they ask if I shoot professionally, I need to answer them in a way that gives them the info they seek, so that I do not look like a liar when later they google me or see my name in photo credits.

While afield photographing wildlife, if I encounter a group of real successful, household name wildlife pros, and they ask me if I shoot professionally, what they are essentially asking me is, "are you one of us". I need to give an honest answer that gives them the info they seek. Basically, I need to answer in a way that lets them know that I do sell my work, but that also lets them know that I am not "important" or "well known" or on their level.

Conversely, when I encounter a gathering of hobbyist wildlife photographers in the field, and they ask me if I am a pro, I need to give an answer that is commensurate with what they are thinking when they ask that question. It will be a different answer than that which I give to the famous full-time pros - even though both groups of people are asking the same question, the answers will be slightly different because they mean different things when they ask the question.

The tricky part is when I have to fill out applications for things like grants and contests and memberships to various things. These applications sometimes give percentages of income that they use to define 'professional'. But my income varies greatly from year to year. If the contest I am entering or the grant I am applying for has a 35% "limit" on income derived from photography, well, what if I check the box that says I swear that my photography income is less than 35% because last year it was only 27% of my total income..........but then this year it ends up being 45% of my total income? If I get the grant and they find that the year in which i applied I had too high of a level of photo-based income, I could risk disqualification or even fraud charges. But how the heck can I possibly know how much photo-based income I will end up with this year, until the end of the year when everything is totaled up?

So you see, because I am asked to answer questions about the nature of my photography practice, as it relates to being "professional" or not, I really do need to think through the topic, so as to give answers that are appropriate and honest. It has nothing to do with me being "hung up" on a label.

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There are levels between amateur and professional. I would have thought one knows if they are a professional or not, and would answer as such in all situations. If one is not sure of where they stand, then they may not be an amateur or a professional, they might be somewhere in-between.

There are classes that are tailored to these different levels even.

I would have thought this was resolved almost 9 years ago, but alas I guess not.

https://photography-on-the.net …hread.php?t=526​777&page=2

TeamSpeed wrote in post #18319750
There are levels between amateur and professional. I would have thought one knows if they are a professional or not, and would answer as such in all situations.

But when one responds to different people and different agencies, you answer based on THEIR definition, not your own. It is their question, so they get to set all of the parameters for the answer.

TeamSpeed wrote in post #18319750
I would have thought this was resolved almost 9 years ago, but alas I guess not.

Resolved?! I think that the definition of "professional photographer" is so subjective that it will never be resolved once and for all in a way that applies to all people and all situations.

In other words, it is about as subjective as the definition of 'art', and the discussion will be forever ongoing and never resolved with any finality.

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When I am asked about my career choice I never consider who is asking, my answer is the same. I know I am a professional and competent system architect. If I have to answer differently depending on who asks, then I lack the confidence of a proper answer. Ditto with photography. The last thing I would want would be two parties talking later and comparing answers, I want a consistent response.

Professional isn't that subjective at all. If photography is your profession, you are a professional. If you are really good at photography but it isn't your profession, you are an expert photographer. People that want to be labeled a professional want the term to be subjective so they are included, those that make photography their profession don't think it is subjective at all.

I am not a professional, even though i am paid for weddings, senior portraits, media outlets use my sports shots, and I am compensated by the Pacers organization to take photos at games. I have no confusion over this matter. Now am I better than the pros that are also shooting the games? Yes some of them, as I have seen their work and lack of care in their final product. That also doesnt mean I am a professional. It just means I care more or know how to use my equipment better or have a more creative eye.

Hogloff wrote in post #18319633
Doesn't matter what you consider yourself as...its all in your clients eyes. If you deliver and act like a professional...you'll be considered a professional even if you only make 10% of your income from photography. If you can't deliver the goods and act like a buffoon, then you will be looked upon as a wannabe, even if you make 100% of your measly income from photography.

Why are photographers so hung up on the "professional" title? I don't see the person cutting my hair caring so much...why you photographers?

Well, I'm not, but after a 35+ year career, I think it's settled. Some of us have BFA, BS, MFA, MS degrees in photo and have worked in the field for decades. We have no doubts, but honestly have never thought about it.

But I think DSLR cameras have brought the potential for anyone with ½ brain to be a "photographer"— and some are looking for validation.

Same thing happened with design— easy-to-use software and cheap workstations (and visually illiterate Clients working with cheap budgets) have created a new breed of creatives— maybe creative, maybe not, with various levels of understanding. I have a good toothbrush, now I'm a dentist. Tell me I'm a dentist!

airfrogusmc wrote in post #18318674
Yeah would have been earlier for me but 4 years USMC then worked construction until '82 when I decided to use my veterans benefits.

I had 2 years hitch hiking with a Mamiya 645, a couple of bricks of 120, and 3 lenses. Should have been 1975 if I knew what I wanted earlier, but at least now I can call myself a professional. Woohoo.