At what point do you consider yourself a "Professional" photographer?

photosbytw wrote in post #18321826
Be careful...........it seems that no one is considered an artist until after their death...........

Wonderful. That means that the Thomas Kincade knockoff hanging in my ex's living room is a work of art, being that he's deceased?

Buick M wrote in post #18321490
There is the rub. There's no consensus on what makes or a certification to be, a professional photographer. Its self appointed which means anyone can be a professional!

Not sure if they're still around, but the PPofA used to give out "professional" titles after a weekend wedding course. What vomit. I avoided them with great disdain.

Bassat wrote in post #18321789
I just want to state, publicly, for the record, that I am not a professional. I am a hobbyist, grandfather, registered nurse, piano playing, H-D riding, beer drinking amateur. Nothing in that statements means I am any better or worse behind the camera than any chosen professional photographer.

Thanks for the honest self-assessment. Beer-drinking amateur was a let-down though.

joedlh wrote in post #18321841
Wonderful. That means that the Thomas Kincade knockoff hanging in my ex's living room is a work of art, being that he's deceased?

Well..........if it's a "knockoff" he didn't paint it............so......​.....tell her no...........

joedlh wrote in post #18321841
Wonderful. That means that the Thomas Kincade knockoff hanging in my ex's living room is a work of art, being that he's deceased?

Chauncey actually loves Kincade's stuff ! . See:

chauncey wrote in post #18309544
Lets go back 10 years. to when I first picked up a camera...https://www.google.com …omas+kinkade+te​chniques&*
he is who I wanted to emulate, but painting was way beyond me. The desire still exists.

.

airfrogusmc wrote in post #18321099
Most of the art directors, graphic designers and other visual professional that I work with know how deceptive a portfolio can be and would never hire from a web site or just a portfolio. It's usually all about past work that you done for them or recommendations from others or they saw an ad you shot and got your info from the team that did that ad. They know that a photographer can spend years getting a handful of good images together for a portfolio. That doesn't mean that they can get images like in their portfolio in a day or a half day under all kinds of pressures and other things that actually happen on a shoot. And it never tells how well you work with the others on the shoot. So it can be important but it surely is not the definitive that you claim.

I'm retired now but this is exactly my experience. If they hire someone to do a project that will cost their client a lot of money they know that their job is on the line. I never had a website and my print portfolio was out dated because I rarely had to show one. I got work based on previous clients networking with other professionals.

If someone sees me with my camera and asks if I'm a pro I answer that I'm a retired photographer. I started making 100% of my income from photography in 1971, retired in 2016, so I think I'm entitled to say that. But actually, the title isn't all that important to me.

Sadly, photographers who shoot personal photography are facing an environment that almost requires they have another source of income. I don't see many full time photographers who do that kind of work around my area anymore. If those photographers want to call themselves professionals it doesn't bother me at all.

mcluckie wrote in post #18321848
Thanks for the honest self-assessment. Beer-drinking amateur was a let-down though.

I like Glenlivet 18, too. Does that help?

breal101 wrote in post #18321966
I'm retired now but this is exactly my experience. If they hire someone to do a project that will cost their client a lot of money they know that their job is on the line. I never had a website and my print portfolio was out dated because I rarely had to show one. I got work based on previous clients networking with other professionals.

If someone sees me with my camera and asks if I'm a pro I answer that I'm a retired photographer. I started making 100% of my income from photography in 1971, retired in 2016, so I think I'm entitled to say that. But actually, the title isn't all that important to me.

Sadly, photographers who shoot personal photography are facing an environment that almost requires they have another source of income. I don't see many full time photographers who do that kind of work around my area anymore. If those photographers want to call themselves professionals it doesn't bother me at all.

I to have no web site and I have only had to bid on jobs a couple of times in the past 5 years. I have a stable of about 26 steady clients. They call and will even sometimes adjust their schedules around my availability. I get my work exactly the same way.

As I stated earlier I'm a photographer. It is who I am as well as what I do. Whether I am called a pro or not really doesn't matter to me. 100 % of our family income comes from my photography. And as I said if you ask me what a pro is I would answer it is some that makes his money from photography. If he is an accountant that does part time photography, in my opinion, he is an accountant. That's how I see it but I don't think in the end that the label is important.

As far as my personal work goes I have had some success in that area but I could never pay the bills with it. Many photographers did as I do and take commercial work to pay the bills and feed the beast and cover everything including their personal work That also give me a freedom I don't enjoy with my pro work. When working for clients, as you know, it is usually a collaboration with other visual professionals and it is ultimately the clients in the end. With personal work it is all mine.


CONGRATS on your retirement. I still have a few years left but not a lot.

mcluckie wrote in post #18321845
Not sure if they're still around, but the PPofA used to give out "professional" titles after a weekend wedding course. What vomit. I avoided them with great disdain.

LoL.. I used to do custom printing for a so called PPA MASTER and he couldn't expose a technically good negative if his life depended on it. I saved his bacon so many times.

joedlh wrote in post #18321841
Wonderful. That means that the Thomas Kincade knockoff hanging in my ex's living room is a work of art, being that he's deceased?

I doubt it is worth now what you and your X paid for it.

airfrogusmc wrote in post #18322086
CONGRATS on your retirement. I still have a few years left but not a lot.

Thanks Allen, I'm enjoying it very much. I thought I would miss working but the only thing I miss is the interaction with creative people. The business part, yuck, good riddance, the photography part, I only miss a little bit because I like to be challenged.

I really admire you're ability to enjoy your personal photography. Maybe at some point I'll be able to do some on my own. I still look at photography as money, something I need to forget. Hopefully I'll get my old enthusiasm back, then I might start calling myself an amateur version 2

breal101 wrote in post #18322686
Thanks Allen, I'm enjoying it very much. I thought I would miss working but the only thing I miss is the interaction with creative people. The business part, yuck, good riddance, the photography part, I only miss a little bit because I like to be challenged.

I really admire you're ability to enjoy your personal photography. Maybe at some point I'll be able to do some on my own. I still look at photography as money, something I need to forget. Hopefully I'll get my old enthusiasm back, then I might start calling myself an amateur version 2

With out the personal work I would have been done years ago.

Unless defined for legal purposes, the term is just a subjective title, governed by nothing more than perception.

That being said, here's my perception:

An amateur trains so he can get it right. A professional trains so he can't get it wrong.

In this context, this means that while an amateur can turn out good work, a pro can adust to whatever conditions create a challenge and still nails it.

Here's yet another angle: if the client likes my work, I'm a pro. If not, hey, I'm just an amatuer.

Professional = It is your profession.

There is no implication or understanding that the term = skill, other than enough to get paid for it.

Any other use is IMHO misuse based on misunderstanding.
One hears the term professional being applied to people that know their profession.
One assumes that since the pro does a good job, the term pro means you are good at it.
One is incorrect.

Literally.

Strangely no one gets this confused when it is applied to electricians, chefs or pilots etc.
For some reason there are numerous places where it does, and photography is one of them.

CyberDyneSystems wrote in post #18322872
Strangely no one gets this confused when it is applied to electricians, chefs or pilots etc.
For some reason there are numerous places where it does, and photography is one of them.

Yeh, it is strange that photographers seem to search for this title more than just about any other profession.

My barber does not call himself a professional barber. My dentist does not call herself a professional dentist. My doctor is just my doctor. My burger flipper doesn't call himself anything. My mechanic is just a mechanic.

Why do we photographers get so hung up on wanting to have the professional title? It's not like engineers that have to adhere to standards to bear the professional title...photography has zero regulations...even less than burger flipping.