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Thread started 22 Apr 2008 (Tuesday) 00:45
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Cause of Fringing

 
Glenn ­ NK
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Apr 22, 2008 00:45 |  #1

The following is an excerpt from a statement by a Canon 40D user - never mind where just yet:

"Check out my recent post on 40D fringing. Terrible fringing with lots of different lenses in different circumstances. I even did comparison shots with my old Nikon D70.

Guess which one was way better every time? Yup, the 2004-built D70. So guess what I will do? Maybe sell all of my new Canon kit and revert to my old Nikon. Oh, and never buy Canon again."

Which of course begs the question, does the camera or the lens cause "fringing", or is this guy blowing smoke or worse?

Please notice - this isn't the time for a Canon vs Nikon bunch of BS, it's time for some straight technical answers. My personal take is that he has troubles that aren't related to his 40D body, but I may be wrong.


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SlowBlink
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Apr 22, 2008 00:58 |  #2

It's always been my understanding that it's the optics that cause or cure fringing. It is after all chromatic aberration.


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xarqi
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Apr 22, 2008 02:26 |  #3

Chromatic aberration in lenses can cause fringing, typically giving a cast of one colour on one edge of a feature, and of the complementary colour on the opposite edge.

That may not be the only cause, and the anecdotal evidence you cite bears this out. I do wonder if cross-talk among adjacent photosites contributes to a similar effect. If so, it would be most noticeable where there were differences in incident light between the photosites (i.e. at edges), and where contrast is greatest (likewise, edges, but where saturation may be occurring), and there would be no difference in colour between edges. This fairly accurately describes the phenomenon known as "purple fringing".

I have seen no formal proof or disproof, but I believe this is a separate but real effect.




  
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kjhart0133
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Apr 22, 2008 06:38 |  #4

Not all CA is from the lens, though most is. Check these links for some alternate explanations and how to tell the difference.

http://www.dpreview.co​m/learn/?/Glos...rrati​on_01.htm (external link)

http://en.wikipedia.or​g/wiki/Chromatic_aberr​ation (external link)

Kevin H.


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xarqi
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Apr 22, 2008 07:15 |  #5

kjhart0133 wrote in post #5379473 (external link)
Not all CA is from the lens, though most is. Check these links for some alternate explanations and how to tell the difference.

http://www.dpreview.co​m/learn/?/Glos...rrati​on_01.htm (external link)

http://en.wikipedia.or​g/wiki/Chromatic_aberr​ation (external link)

Kevin H.

That first link is not what to where you were hoping, I suspect.




  
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tzalman
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Apr 22, 2008 07:39 |  #6

I think he was referring to this:
http://www.dpreview.co​m …l_Imaging/Bloom​ing_01.htm (external link)
and this:
http://www.dpreview.co​m …/key=chromatic+​aberration (external link)
According to these links purple fringing and its visibility are very much characteristics of the CFA.


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kfong
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Apr 22, 2008 19:27 |  #7

tzalman wrote in post #5379702 (external link)
I think he was referring to this:
http://www.dpreview.co​m …l_Imaging/Bloom​ing_01.htm (external link)
and this:
http://www.dpreview.co​m …/key=chromatic+​aberration (external link)
According to these links purple fringing and its visibility are very much characteristics of the CFA.

Can anyone care to explain why CA in a microlens on Bayer pattern sensor causes purple fringing? The explanation in dpreview is not clear at all.

Ken




  
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Bill ­ Boehme
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Apr 22, 2008 23:31 |  #8

kfong wrote in post #5384068 (external link)
Can anyone care to explain why CA in a microlens on Bayer pattern sensor causes purple fringing? The explanation in dpreview is not clear at all.

Ken

Well, it appears that they just make a statement and there is no explanation whatsoever to justify the statement.

My own experience disagrees completely with that statement. The images that I get when using one of the lenses that I have, a Canon EF 75-300mm f/4-5.6 III exhibits extreme purple fringing. I thought that was the best that my camera could do until I bought some "L" lenses and found that the problem completely disappeared. So if it is the sensor that is at the root of the problem, why did it completely go away when I got better lenses?

I bought the cheap telephoto lens when I got my camera, but since seeing what a real lens does, it has never been used since. It isn't even a good boat anchor because it floats.


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Terrywoodenpic
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Apr 23, 2008 03:50 |  #9

bill boehme wrote in post #5385528 (external link)
Well, it appears that they just make a statement and there is no explanation whatsoever to justify the statement.

My own experience disagrees completely with that statement. The images that I get when using one of the lenses that I have, a Canon EF 75-300mm f/4-5.6 III exhibits extreme purple fringing. I thought that was the best that my camera could do until I bought some "L" lenses and found that the problem completely disappeared. So if it is the sensor that is at the root of the problem, why did it completely go away when I got better lenses?

I bought the cheap telephoto lens when I got my camera, but since seeing what a real lens does, it has never been used since. It isn't even a good boat anchor because it floats.

Purple fringing certainly is caused by the sensor micro lenses.... but the more Telecentric the camera lens is, the less the effect there is likely to be.
The problem is caused when the light from your lens strikes the micro lens at acute angles. Leica and some other cameras offset the microlenses so that light passes more directly to the sensor, and reduces fringing. It like CA is usually more of a problem with poor quality or wide angle lenses. ( i.e. not telecentric).
Whilst CA is found equally on Film cameras, Purple fringing is not.


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SlowBlink
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Apr 23, 2008 18:50 |  #10

I wish I was closer to understanding this but why would cheap glass make any difference if it's caused by the angle of attack on the micro lens? It seems contradictory to me. I gather by what you said it's both and not just the sensor.


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kfong
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Apr 23, 2008 20:19 |  #11

Terrywoodenpic wrote in post #5386471 (external link)
Purple fringing certainly is caused by the sensor micro lenses.... but the more Telecentric the camera lens is, the less the effect there is likely to be.
The problem is caused when the light from your lens strikes the micro lens at acute angles. Leica and some other cameras offset the microlenses so that light passes more directly to the sensor, and reduces fringing. It like CA is usually more of a problem with poor quality or wide angle lenses. ( i.e. not telecentric).
Whilst CA is found equally on Film cameras, Purple fringing is not.

Still don't explain how the purple part of a white light hitting a microlens (even at an acute angle) managed to fall into ONLY blue and RED neigbouring photo-sites to generate purple fringes.




  
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Bill ­ Boehme
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Apr 23, 2008 22:26 |  #12

Terrywoodenpic wrote in post #5386471 (external link)
Purple fringing certainly is caused by the sensor micro lenses.... but the more Telecentric the camera lens is, the less the effect there is likely to be.
The problem is caused when the light from your lens strikes the micro lens at acute angles. Leica and some other cameras offset the microlenses so that light passes more directly to the sensor, and reduces fringing. It like CA is usually more of a problem with poor quality or wide angle lenses. ( i.e. not telecentric).
Whilst CA is found equally on Film cameras, Purple fringing is not.

I was buying this explanation for a while, but the more that I think about it, the less plausible it seems. The purple fringing that I have observed while using cheap lenses occurs at all points on the sensor, not just the outer edges. It also appears to be much more prevalent when the lens exhibits a large amount of flare. The problem is the worst on my cheap 75-300mm telephoto lens as opposed to the EF-S 18-55mm f/3.5-5.6 kit lens. Further, the purple fringing problem also occurs on cameras whose sensors do not have micro lenses. I have read other descriptions of the problem that attribute the cause to saturation of sensor elements and, indeed, that is where the problem seems to be the most noticeable.

While it is easy to envision that the very rudimentarymicro lenses can suffer from chromatic aberration, purple fringing seems to uniformly surround bright areas that are near saturation rather than behaving as CA where complementary diffraction components exist on opposite sides of high contrast areas. It is also interesting to note that the width of the purple fringe seems to be dependent upon the brightness of the light which is counter to the idea of being diffraction related.

I won't completely dismiss the idea of color fringing due to the micro lenses (after all, it is glass), but for the time being and without a better and more rigorous explanation, the idea that it is always purple doesn't quite seem to float.


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Terrywoodenpic
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Apr 24, 2008 05:19 |  #13

There are two contrary arguments about purple fringing.

In digital photography the sensor micro-lenses are the main cause see...
http://en.wikipedia.or​g/wiki/Talk:Purple_fri​nging (external link)
However Purple fringing was known and written about by astronomers centuries ago.
Their crude optics were prone to many aberrations.


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John_B
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Apr 24, 2008 06:54 |  #14

My guess is its caused by the sensor, however the reason it shows up more with cheaper glass is because the more expensive glass filters the light better.
Here on Canons Camera Museum:When parallel light rays are refracted by a prism, a rainbow-hued spectrum comes out. This phenomenon is called "dispersion". In case of photographic lenses, the dispersion causes color fringes at the edge of subjects, which is called axial chromatic aberration, and as a result, deterioration of image quality of photography. There is a limit to the correction of chromatic aberration, using regular optical glass lens elements only. Some aberrations not corrected by optical glass are called secondary spectrum or residual chromatic aberration or secondary chromatic aberration. The artificial crystal fluorite lens element, featuring very low optical dispersion index, was developed by Canon to eliminate secondary spectrum. Canon succeeded artificially crystallizing calcium fluoride (CaF2) into fluorite at the end of 1960s. Canon EF lenses are the only interchangeable lenses for 35mm SLR at the time that employ fluorite lens elements. In the late 1970s, Canon also developed special optical glass lens elements with very low dispersion index called Ultra-low Dispersion (UD) glass lens elements, and in 1990s an upgrade version of UD glass, called Super UD glass, was developed. Fluorite, UD and Super UD glass lens elements are widely used in EF lens series, for super-telephoto L series lenses, as well as in telephoto zoom and wide angle lenses. (external link)


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Bill ­ Boehme
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Apr 24, 2008 08:42 as a reply to  @ John_B's post |  #15

^^ Hopefully, the glass does not filter any visible light.


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Cause of Fringing
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