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FORUMS Photography Talk by Genre Sports Talk 
Thread started 30 Apr 2008 (Wednesday) 02:48
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UK football help

 
grimey121uk
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Apr 30, 2008 02:48 |  #1

Im not sure if this is the correct place to post this (feel free to move it moderators if needed)

I want to try and have a go at taking pictures at a premiership football game, not for money or profesional reasons but just as a hobby. Ive emailed my local football team Bolton an am still waiting for a respose.

my main qustions are.
1.what kind of criteria do me and my camera equiptment have to meet for them to consider me.

2.is there some kind of application proccess to go through.

3. what kind of cost are invlovled.

4 do they only allow profesionals?

Although i only have a 40d i would have thought that it would be fast enougth for the action if i shoot wide open and at high iso even with my slow 100-400 assuming the match is during the day:D


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adam ­ LC
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Apr 30, 2008 03:10 |  #2

How about hiring a more appropriate lens? 500f4? 400f2.8?

For a premiership game, you'll need accredititaion definaftely. You won't be able to shoot without it, unless you know somebody. As you've mailed a club already; hopefully they'll get back to you soon and give you more info.

I know there's a few guys on potn who shoot premiership games, I'm sure they'll help you more than I.


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grimey121uk
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Apr 30, 2008 03:17 |  #3

For me its a hobby and as im a student, super telephoto lenses are way to expensive for me. if i get turned down by premiership i may have to try smaller football clubs from lower leagues


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Gary_Evans
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Apr 30, 2008 03:43 |  #4

grimey121uk wrote:
=grimey121uk;5432211 ........ do they only allow profesionals?

Yes. You must have an agency buying your photos, and you must have a proven record of sales for your football images.

400mm 2.8 and 70-200 2.8 are popular lenses with the shooters I know


Gary
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grimey121uk
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Apr 30, 2008 04:22 |  #5

damm i gouse ill have to start wth low league teams then and work my way up


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jpwone
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Apr 30, 2008 06:17 |  #6

Restrictions on photography at League Football matches are strict, licensed and very well monitored.

To publish an image from a league match you require a license. It is very difficult as a freelance to get a license. Licenses are issued by Dataco which is the licensing company owned by the FA Premier League and Football League.

To get a license you have to show paid publication of images at the level you wish to photograph. As you cannot publish without a license you cannot get a license :-)

There are a number of ways around this but you will not be able to directly publish the images.
1. You become a club photographer. To do this you will have to show a club that needs a photographer a body of work at a standard high enough to reflect their league level. The club will be able to use the images and submit them to news agencies.

2. You join a licensed press agency. Publication will be via the agency and in an editorial context.

3. You join a local paper as a sports photographer. Publication will be via the paper and in an editorial context.

Having a Dataco license does not automatically give you entry to a match or ground. You still need to get accreditation. This is usually done by the paper or agency that you are working for and confirms that you are a genuine media photographer working on their behalf. Having got your accreditation sorted out you now need to get permission from the club to shoot for each match you wish to shoot. Again, this is not automatic. Your paper or agency will apply to the club and will confirm who will be shooting on their behalf. The club will limit the number of photographers and the placement of photographers. If their quota is full you will be refused or if a higher status agency needs a spot you may be bumped.

You or your agency will need adequate third party insurance. The minimum for league football is £2 million but you may be asked to provide proof of up to £5 million.

As space is tight for photographers at league matches the clubs rarely (if ever) allow anyone other than accredited and licensed media or their own photographer access. Visiting club photographers have to get accreditation by their club and it is usual to make contact with the club media officer or secretary to ensure you are allowed entry.

If you really want to shoot football check your local non-league grounds. Their are plenty of them and many will welcome a photographer who is prepared to commit some time to the club. The standard of play can be very high and it is the learning ground for many football photographers. If you go this route ensure you have adequate third party insurance or are covered by the clubs insurance.

Hope this helps.


John
Club Photographer - Christchurch FC (external link)
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KIPAX
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Apr 30, 2008 09:38 |  #7

jpwone wrote in post #5432712 (external link)
To get a license you have to show paid publication of images at the level you wish to photograph.

I would say thats wrong. They don't have to be from the level you wish to photograph at.. Currently for a league licence it is

15 football action shots sold to recognised printed media (regional or national not local) at recognised levels of payment. You must show clippings credited to you and paid invoices.. The 15 pics must have been taken within a year previous to applying.. These can be from any level of football and not just at the level you want to shoot at

jpwone wrote in post #5432712 (external link)
There are a number of ways around this but you will not be able to directly publish the images.

There are no ways around it

jpwone wrote in post #5432712 (external link)
1. You become a club photographer.

None of the pictures taken as a club photographer will go towards your licence because you would have taken them under the clubs licence. If you can become a none league club photographer then you may be able to sell some to the papers but tis rare to get paid for non league.. Also you need a licence for the first two tiers Conference and Con north/south although not as hard to get but still not easy... ANy lower and it would be hard to sell them.

jpwone wrote in post #5432712 (external link)
2. You join a licensed press agency. Publication will be via the agency and in an editorial context.

As 1.. You would be working under there licence and as such you would not be able to use these towards your licence.

jpwone wrote in post #5432712 (external link)
3. You join a local paper as a sports photographer. Publication will be via the paper and in an editorial context.

Sorry but as 1. and 2. You would be taking these pics using the papers licence.. as with club and agency they would not be yours even if you did take them.. the licence holder would be the owner

Its very hard to get a licence as you can see... I have 5 towards my 15 and 10 months to get 10 more.. should do it fingers crossed.

Once I have mine I can then sell the club photographs I take and easy make the 15 in about a month for the following year :)


In my tenth year as a Full time Sports Photographer.
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jpwone
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Apr 30, 2008 13:59 |  #8

Sorry Kipax, I should have been a bit more explicit. I did not mean to imply that you could get around the license issue I meant getting to shoot without having a license yourself.

Non-league images are extremely difficult to sell editorially. You really have to enjoy doing it and hopefully recover some or all of your costs by selling images to players and clubs. My own experience is that the local papers don't want to pay (Dorset). There are enough part timers around who are happy to get their name in print and give the images to the papers. Personally I think it is short sighted of the papers. Give it a few years when the pro's have moved on because they can't make a living and the local papers are going to have a serious shortage of skilled sports photographers when the part timers decide that standing in the wind and rain for no return is not what they really want to do. I have had one editor tell me that they now have a policy not to pay for sports images at all. The view was that even if the images they used were poor they cost nothing and that was all that mattered to them.

It is because of the difficulty of selling images at the lower levels that I simplified the requirements for the license to be at a similar level. Teach me to try and take short cuts :-)


John
Club Photographer - Christchurch FC (external link)
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Zilly
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May 09, 2008 13:43 |  #9

joins dave in having a nervous breakdown
just breath dave:)


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jpwone
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May 10, 2008 06:45 |  #10

Kipax,

I've just re-read my original response and with the exception of requirements to get a licence (which I simplified) I cannot see that the response warranted a complete trashing. I was pretty explicit about the usage and at no point did I say that the images would contribute towards getting a licence or that they could be used by anybody but the licence holder under which the images were taken.

Would suggest you re-read the original posters questions and then my response in the context of the original questions.


John
Club Photographer - Christchurch FC (external link)
Sports and Events (external link)

  
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jamesb84
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Sep 01, 2008 08:24 |  #11

grimey121uk wrote in post #5432211 (external link)
Im not sure if this is the correct place to post this (feel free to move it moderators if needed)

I want to try and have a go at taking pictures at a premiership football game, not for money or profesional reasons but just as a hobby. Ive emailed my local football team Bolton an am still waiting for a respose.

Well, you may wait a while for that. Bolton being in the Premiership will definitely hold you back...I'm a West Ham fan, but for the 2 years of shooting sports have NEVER got to go to Upton Park for a game.

my main qustions are.

1.what kind of criteria do me and my camera equiptment have to meet for them to consider me.

Gear wise, there is no criteria set out by the FA/Football League/Premier League. You can turn up with a Powershot if you like. You can see what i'm using, and that has served me well up until now.

For you, well as has been mentioned, this is where you will hit difficulty. For the Premiership, you need: 30 images of "League football", so football league stuff or premiership, published and paid for (and you need to prove it, so keep the cuttings and invoices) PLUS you'll need at least £5 million of Public Liability Insurance (many pro insurance policies will have this as an option).

For the Football Leagues you need: 15 images of Football (conference or football league) published and paid for, and at least £2 million of Public Liability Insurance.

For the Football Conference (BlueSq Prem, North and South), you only need the Insurance (I think thats what it was when I got my option to renew) at £2 million.

These are the restrictions on you. If you manage to get a Football League/Premier League licence, you will also (from this season...officially at least) need recognised professional ID, in the form of a UK Press Card (from one of the gatekeeper organisations such as the BPPA/NUJ/BAJ) which you will have to meet the various membership requirements and further requirements for UK Press Card approval in order to get. Or you can have a DataCo (licensing company) card made for you (which are like gold dust) or you can try and use something like the AIPS card.

2.is there some kind of application proccess to go through.

See above...the application is notoriously selective, and with the advent of the recognised press ID, it now means that a lot of guys who were doing it for fun at weekends and selling to the nationals for pennies will no longer be given a licence. So for those of us in already, and who are doing it pro/full-time, it's good.

3. what kind of cost are invlovled.


Well, whatever it costs you to get to a game/photograph it and get back home. Petrol costs/parking costs are well, you can imagine. Insurance runs to about £200 per year to get all the things you need (and for goodness sake, GET IT!!!)

I would suggest a long (300mm +) lens with a good aperture (4.0 or better) is vital, plus a 70-200 and 2 bodies is a good start so that's a fairly hefty slab of money too.

4 do they only allow profesionals

See answer 2, yeah, you will now have to meet NUJ/BAJ/BPPA criteria for FULL membership (ie. earning the majority of your income through photography) before you'll get a UK Press Card to get into the ground.

Although i only have a 40d i would have thought that it would be fast enougth for the action if i shoot wide open and at high iso even with my slow 100-400 assuming the match is during the day:D

Well, the 40D is good, the 100-400 is good, but it may lack a bit of bokeh for the shots, but yeah, it'll do for daytime.

My advice would be to go and do a few non-league games (Northern Premier League/Unibond League would be good to start) and get a feel for what the camera/you can do for football. Then apply for a conference licence and try to get out there and selling...speak to local papers and see if they're interested (even £5.00 will suffice as an invoice, just always ALWAYS ensure that you do NOT give a paper ALL RIGHTS!!! as they'll own copyright and your photo will be worthless (both as a future earner, and for your licence application)).

Work your way up from there and see how far you get. It will make the whole thing all the more sweet when you DO step out on the pitch at the Reebok Stadium in front of 30,000 to photograph the premiership, as if you get there...you WILL have earned it.

James.


Hi, my name is James...and I'm here to hel https://photography-on-the.net …?p=6506577&post​count=1417

  
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dinny66
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Dec 05, 2008 17:36 |  #12

Very informative thread this one.
I'm been shooting for Shoreham FC since about August. They're in the non league levels, 'Step 9' in the pyramid. So far I've managed to get 5 pictures printed in my local paper, the Shoreham Herald, and got paid for 4 of them.:D:D Only £10 or so a pop, but it's a few quid (I did actually give to the club as a donation for their floodlight fund, but that's another story:lol:)
Gotta say though, getting that first email saying they wanted it and pay for it was fantastic.
The copyright is single use only for suchandsuch date, so if they want a reprint, I get more money.
I guess I've just got to keep plugging away before making the big(ger) time, but it is fun.

Been using 2 bodies for a while now, to get the distance/closer stuff. Really handy.
Currently 1x50D+Sigma 120-300 f2.8 and 1x40D + (from yesterday) 70-200mm f2.8 L IS. Have used the 17-55 but it's a bit too wide for my liking.


Mike

  
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DarrenL
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Dec 11, 2008 06:47 |  #13

Hello Dinny,

I'm down your neck of the woods, I covered a few of the Shoreham home games last season.

Darren


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dinny66
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Dec 11, 2008 12:06 |  #14

Hi Darren,
Great images of the John O'Hara Final.
Hope to see you there sometime. Have you moved a a league or two now?

Mike


Mike

  
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chris78cpr
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Dec 11, 2008 18:25 as a reply to  @ dinny66's post |  #15

I found that even shooting div 1/2 teams requires backing from the local paper. Professional football is such a big money sport that they protect their image by limiting photographers to only the professionals so that they don't have sub standard imagery published of them.

Chris


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