CD Sales: I guess I have no reason to argue

Hi all,

Isn't it interesting .. the areas we stress out about seem to have little problems in the end.

Case in point: My dad and I run a small sports photo business near Minneapolis, MN. Most of the time, I am the photographer and my dad is the "talker" simply because I have invested in more equipment than him, and he has no problem starting a random conversation.

After stressing over how to price prints (though I really accidentally copied a friend of mine who shoots mostly basketball) - everyone wants CDs. I won't argue. Maybe up to 1 dollar for a CD with AT LEAST a 50x profit vs around 4.50 profit per 4x6.

Fine by me And they're happy too!

NOTE: Before I'm flamed for not properly taking mileage, post processing time, equipment costs, and everything else - I did. A 50 dollar cd is ONE parent.

CD of their child only? You sell a CD of the event and they share....

I'm a little confused about your pricing structure - the CD's are $50 each?

Interesting you should post this.

I recently talked to a another photographer who was doing the same thing. He was saying that after several years of on site printing and a year or two of online sales he wasn't happy with with working all weekend and selling to only 10-15% of the participants. He switched to selling only CD's and immediately started making sales to 65-70% of the participants. His discs were 1 child per disc - no exceptions.

I bought one of the CDs just to see his process all the way through. When it arrived, the pictures were straight out of the camera - they hadn't even been rotated.

I have shot a few sporting events and had what I would consider to be below average sales. It sure seems tempting to do less work after the fact (although I would have to rotate the pics), spend less money on supplies, and make more sales.

Another random thought -- What will set you apart from any other mom or dad with a "nice" camera?? Access?, Lenses?, Timing? Actually knowing how to use the camera (you know, the little things like ISO, Aperature, Shutter Speed to get a good shot)?

The jury is still out on this issue for me. But, it sure looks like inexpensive CDs are coming soon.

I'm all ears. Thanks, HuskiesD1 for starting the topic.

TDF

Great concept and it seems that it works.

Know your audience, and what they want. Seems like they want CDs.

I can venture a guess why they want them.
Flexibility. We are in the digital age.
They want to post them on online, e-mail them, used to design their own photo books, greeting cards, etc.

I'd say that I would do the processing on them even if minimal stuff.

A few things that set you apart are:
-You are in the best spot to take the pic for the sport (and know where that is).
-You have a better understanding of the equipment and know how to use it.
-You can anticipate the shot and take the right pic.

IMO the CD sales for this type of photography is worth it.
The only time I'd consider doing online sales, or on site printing is if they can outsell the $50 CD.

There are some events where on site prints can beat the CDs.
One example is equestrian events.
I believe there is a lot of sales opportunities and people can gently up-sell some prints there.

I have not experimented with this business model but as soon as I heard it sounded very familiar. Everyone I talk to are willing to pray a premium for the digital pics in high res. They either create their own albums or tap into the strong emerging market of 2nd parties that use the pics and do album design.

I'd have been willing to buy a CD of my kids in sports (as long as the quality was good and the price fair). Even as a photographer myself, I'd appreciate the freedom to actually watch my kids perform for a change rather that be the techo-geek worrying about exposure and such and missing so much.

Though I can't deny the satisfactiuon when I nail a great shot of my kid myself.

This is a good business model, and as long as you get repeat business from future events I cant see any problem.

Makes a change from those who sell prints for a pittance, as you wont have to read this board for long to come accross the 6x4 for $2

Good luck with it

I didn't expect so many responses!

First, the CD's are only of their kids, or are only large enough to be used in a PowerPoint presentation, an idea that the person purchasing the CD already agreed to. I also plan on putting a water mark on every few images so that the entire team and their parents can see the website at their banquet.

" They want to post them on online, e-mail them, used to design their own photo books, greeting cards, etc."

Exactly. If parents are anything like me, they might want one or two prints total, but could use the whole CD to send their the kids' grandparents or friends. Either way, here's the advantage that I've learned from a few years of retail experience, and well, buying in retail myself: You don't have to choose right now - you can order the photos you want online later for cheaper, but I still make more money than previously given the following example:

50 bucks, in the case of the CD, would net a MAXIMUM profit of about 30 dollars if I were to sell even an optimal mix of prints. With the CD, I spend a few cents on material I really already have.

"Another random thought -- What will set you apart from any other mom or dad with a "nice" camera?? Access?, Lenses?, Timing? Actually knowing how to use the camera (you know, the little things like ISO, Aperature, Shutter Speed to get a good shot)?"

1D Mark II and a 300 2.8 on a monopod and a 20D with a 70-200 2.8 on the other hip, permission of the athletic director of the Suburban East conference, and an extremely talkative dad.

i'm confused on your pricing...you sell each cd for $1 or $50? who sorts the images into each player for the individual parents (I'm understanding that each cd is just their kid)?

I like the idea...now my brain gets to see if it works in the wedding world

flashmedic wrote in post #5450390
who sorts the images into each player for the individual parents (I'm understanding that each cd is just their kid)?

the guy that I had talked too uploaded the pictures to a web gallery just like the rest of us. Where he differed was that the parents would then go to the gallery and select their childs pictures as their "favorites". Then they emailed him to let him know they were done. He grabbed their favorites folder, burned it to a disc and mailed it.

** It is worth noting, he collected the money upfront at the event. That is probably a given. But it never hurts to clarify.

It's a different situation in the wedding business.

Higher expectations are for professionally bound albums - coffee table style and matted, finished prints, and PS'd proofs. There is a market for CD only weddings, but those are typically lower end entry level packages. Most pros who have been in the business for a while don't offer them. You'll see a lot of that on Craigslist.

That being said, the CD model does seem to work nicely in some sports, dance and school situations.

flashmedic wrote in post #5450390
.......I like the idea...now my brain gets to see if it works in the wedding world

sapearl wrote in post #5452775
It's a different situation in the wedding business.

Higher expectations are for professionally bound albums - coffee table style and matted, finished prints, and PS'd proofs. There is a market for CD only weddings, but those are typically lower end entry level packages. Most pros who have been in the business for a while don't offer them. You'll see a lot of that on Craigslist.

That being said, the CD model does seem to work nicely in some sports, dance and school situations.

I've begun using the CD-only model selectively to get free (actually very very very low cost) vacations. I offer my services on their day + a disk of ready-to-prints in exchange for all expenses paid vacation time in their area. First time out will be Mexico in June. We'll see how it goes. I say "selectively" because I'm not going to do a mountain wedding in West Virginia at cost just because it's not in my local area...it's for unique/luxurious/exoti​c type locations only.

I can tell you that the business is shiffing toward CD only as far as weddings go.

Last year the going price was about $1500-1800 for CD only no prints.
When I first heard of it I did not believe that it was possible that someone would pay for a CD only wedding that much.

Make no mistake when I say CD only it does mean shoot and burn low qaulity.
These pics were processed properly.
Further more the lighting was exquisite (multiple sofboxes during formals and procesional).
This was a professional job.

This business has a lot of nuances.

In the beginning people were thinking of CD only as low quality.

Theses days the market has shifted and the clients want the pics.

I've seen quite a few forward thinking photogs that have adapted their business model to the market demand.

It is possible to do a $2000+ CD only wedding.

Smart too.

The clients want the high res files and I say price them right and give them to them.

The way I look at it a business model is only great if it works.

If you operate under the business model that makes money from prints you need to periodically check that people are still buying prints.

I don't see the point to keep using a print based business model if the market is no longer interested in it.

I guess from what I hear people charge around $500 for the full rights of the high res pics. If you can get $2000-2500 upfront for a high quality CD only wedding why not do it.

Include about 50 4x6s and 8x10s if you are concerned with the quality of the work (the BG get their prints done at WalMart and they don't look so good).

I guess that is one of the biggest fears of the photog that if you give them the high res pics they will print them at WalMart and the photog's reputation will be tarnished because of this.

I don't know how much weight that holds.
I do know that you cannot let just this one decision stop you from trying a CD only approach.

People are always going to find a way to copy your prints and make poor quality copies anyways.

There is a really large secondary market of people that just do album design.
So the BG having the CD only wedding is very beneficial.
They can go to the best album designer and have their album done (if they choose to).

I include the CD with my top package and offer it at a rather reasonable a la carte rate with my others. I'm not traditional print-based though either. My product line is comprised of coffee table albums, pocket sized proof books (high quality that they keep), gallery wrap prints, and DVD slideshows. I give the client real "stuff" that has a value to it, IMHO.

I really don't even want to mess with print orders, but my prices are such that if they do order from me, it's worth my while.

Having said that, the CD isn't a free-ride. I do limit the resolution and quantity (200) so that I can use minimal compression and still fit them on a standard CD rather than resorting to DVDs. As I tell the client, they make good 8x10s, great 5x7s, and fantastic 4x6s.

Even though I come from a "traditional" wedding background, I won't disagree that there has been a shift toward wedding CD & DVD's in recent years. This is not THE factor, but it is one of the factors that has contributed to a lowering in the cost of wedding photography packages.

Many more digital shooters are now out there offering bargain basement burn-to-disk weddings, at discount prices, and many brides are taking the unrealistic position that the rest of us should "fall into line" and offer 1000+ hi rez images on disk, with all rights, at WalMart prices. This can't happen and should not happen.

Some photographers don't have printing expertise, the time to spend ordering prints, or the inclination to invest time in print production or album design/assembly. For them the disk is key to their business plan. For those that price the disk properly, this is not a criticism but simply their business model. They know if it works or not.

The potential problem with CD only packages is the quality level. Yes, there are a number of folks out there with top notch PP skills who will load gorgeous hi rez images on disk. But there are even more don't have basic PP skills and can barely spell photoshop. The unwary shopper can have a daunting search if he/she doesn't know the right questions to ask. With a print portfolio or display albums, at least they can see first hand what the finished work will look like.

I do not normally include a high rez disk in my packages. I am a traditional album builder. But if somebody inquires about a disk, I will include it as premium. This will typically be another $500 on top of an average album cost of $2K.

Alexajlex wrote in post #5452947
I can tell you that the business is shiffing toward CD only as far as weddings go.

Last year the going price was about $1500-1800 for CD only no prints.
When I first heard of it I did not believe that it was possible that someone would pay for a CD only wedding that much.

.......It is possible to do a $2000+ CD only wedding.

Smart too.

The clients want the high res files and I say price them right and give them to them.

The way I look at it a business model is only great if it works.

If you operate under the business model that makes money from prints you need to periodically check that people are still buying prints.

I don't see the point to keep using a print based business model if the market is no longer interested in it.......

Include about 50 4x6s and 8x10s if you are concerned with the quality of the work (the BG get their prints done at WalMart and they don't look so good).

I guess that is one of the biggest fears of the photog that if you give them the high res pics they will print them at WalMart and the photog's reputation will be tarnished because of this.

I don't know how much weight that holds. ......