CD Sales: I guess I have no reason to argue

tcphoto1 wrote in post #5465008
Let me get this right, you shoot an event, do a basic edit (levels, color, and sharpen) of web size or even small print and burn a CD? You hand out business cards and people call you with their competitor number and send you a check? That sounds like a good deal if they sign a model release stating that they will only use the images for personal use and not for Commercial Usage. The only problem is if the parent complains about the lack of coverage of their child.

Uhhh what?

This is high school lacrosse. No one but the parents want copies of these pictures.

CDs are sold to individual parents of THEIR player.

One CD was sold for usage at the banquet, complete with advertising, and are not really big enough for adequate prints, plus verbal agreement that nothing would be printed.

Anything else you'd like to know? You may be either misunderstanding or blowing this out of proportion.

Verbal agreements don't mean squat.

My wife and I currently charge $20 for the CD on top of our other fees (e.g; copyright and session fee). We feel it's reasonable given we barely get business atm and she's just building her portfolio.

HuskiesD1 wrote in post #5468377
Uhhh what?

This is high school lacrosse. No one but the parents want copies of these pictures.

CDs are sold to individual parents of THEIR player.

One CD was sold for usage at the banquet, complete with advertising, and are not really big enough for adequate prints, plus verbal agreement that nothing would be printed.

Anything else you'd like to know? You may be either misunderstanding or blowing this out of proportion.

I had to go back and reread your original post. Nowhere did you state how the images were to be used, so I assumed as a Pro that you would shoot large enough files to print from and your had some type of Stock sales. The native files from my Canon are plenty large enough or are you downsizing in PP. Next time try to communicate your point a little better or is that your Dad's strength? After all this is "The Business of Photography" forum, not Guy with a Camera forum.

tcphoto1 wrote in post #5470179
I had to go back and reread your original post. Nowhere did you state how the images were to be used, so I assumed as a Pro that you would shoot large enough files to print from and your had some type of Stock sales. The native files from my Canon are plenty large enough or are you downsizing in PP. Next time try to communicate your point a little better or is that your Dad's strength? After all this is "The Business of Photography" forum, not Guy with a Camera forum.

Wow, that seems a little harsh. Maybe it's because I'm in the same situation, but I knew right away that we were dealing with youth sports and sales to parents based on this paragraph:

HuskiesD1 wrote in post #5440756
Hi all,

Case in point: My dad and I run a small sports photo business near Minneapolis, MN. Most of the time, I am the photographer and my dad is the "talker" simply because I have invested in more equipment than him, and he has no problem starting a random conversation.

So, just to recap what I am understanding from this post:

Isn't it interesting that we stress over one thing - print prices and customers want something else - CDs. This looks like it might be the beginnings of a trend among small, localised (but still professional) sports photographers.

Will this model work in other situations? Don't know. You may need to make those decisions yourself. Is it worth the time to explore - I believe so.

I certainly can't speak for Huskies, but I am trying to build a business. Right now I'm not making 100s of thousands of dollars with weddings every weekend. And, I'm not trying to take anything away from those that do. But, I am trying to look for ways to make my business grow.

Thanks again, Huskies for starting the thread. I truly appreciate it and have gathered a ton in information.

TDF

HuskiesD1 - I'm with you on this one man. I totally understood that you were just selling directly to parents and not selling to a stock agency.

tcphoto1 - I'd have to say man I checked out your site and my hat is off to you. You excel at one of hardest forms of photography (food and beverage). I do feel though that perhaps there was some confusion involved and the comments made were a bit harsh towards HuskiesD1.

The "Uhhh what?" pushed my button. I make my living with photography and running my studio means that I think through a situation. If I'm going to hand someone a CD with images, I make sure that they fit the application and the license granted in the paperwork. How many ways will a person attempt to use images, software, mp3 files and so on that are not licensed to use? How many "how much should I charge for this job" threads are there on these forums? I saw a mention of print prices and that led me to believe that they were handing out print resolution files. I would simply have paperwork stating the authorized use of those files.

A signed release is not necessary for a Stock sale unless it's for an Advertising application. There is a demand for lifestyle/active images and Editorial stories could be another revenue for the photographer.

tcphoto1 wrote in post #5471105
The "Uhhh what?" pushed my button. I make my living with photography and running my studio means that I think through a situation. If I'm going to hand someone a CD with images, I make sure that they fit the application and the license granted in the paperwork. How many ways will a person attempt to use images, software, mp3 files and so on that are not licensed to use? How many "how much should I charge for this job" threads are there on these forums? I saw a mention of print prices and that led me to believe that they were handing out print resolution files. I would simply have paperwork stating the authorized use of those files.

A signed release is not necessary for a Stock sale unless it's for an Advertising application. There is a demand for lifestyle/active images and Editorial stories could be another revenue for the photographer.

Whew.. what happened here..?

This is why I love the Internet. Can you tell if "Uhhh What?" is a serious question or sarcasm? You can't. That was a serious question, as I wasn't sure what you were referring to.

I reread my original post to, and no, I did not mention what the photos would be used for, or the fact that they aren't really printable. My bad. Didn't think I would offend anyone while describing my experience in making some money with photography.

"I had to go back and reread your original post. Nowhere did you state how the images were to be used, so I assumed as a Pro that you would shoot large enough files to print from and your had some type of Stock sales. The native files from my Canon are plenty large enough or are you downsizing in PP. Next time try to communicate your point a little better or is that your Dad's strength? After all this is "The Business of Photography" forum, not Guy with a Camera forum."

They've been downsized. I won't address the attack on my communication skills or even note the assumption that I'm a professional shooting high school lacrosse for stock sales.

I will say that your passion for photography is misplaced on your words toward me. Go take photos. I'm not ruining your ability to make a living. I have much to learn, but so does everyone else.

Cooled off now?


EDIT: I looked at your photos. Not my particular interest, but the site and photos are beautiful. Have a good one.

HuskiesD1 wrote in post #5468377
Uhhh what?

This is high school lacrosse. No one but the parents want copies of these pictures.

CDs are sold to individual parents of THEIR player.

One CD was sold for usage at the banquet, complete with advertising, and are not really big enough for adequate prints, plus verbal agreement that nothing would be printed.

Anything else you'd like to know? You may be either misunderstanding or blowing this out of proportion.

I use ProShow Gold for slide shows at banquets. Which I'm paid for. I offer to let them make copies of the slide show to sell as a fund raiser or if they want me to make copies, I charge $30 per copy. I get $265 for a 20 min slide show.
Most teams also purchase additional copies.

Regarding wedding photos on CD/DVD:

My wife and I worked out a deal with our photographer and got an 'industry' discount on our package because we chose to go with an untouched DVD of the images shot by the photographer at our wedding. I know how fast I can post-process, and it was completely worth the difference in price between our photographer doing all the PP and me doing it.

Plus, this way I was able to do all the layout for our books with my wife's input so that it was all "just right".

MisterPhoton wrote in post #5493337
Regarding wedding photos on CD/DVD:

My wife and I worked out a deal with our photographer and got an 'industry' discount on our package because we chose to go with an untouched DVD of the images shot by the photographer at our wedding. I know how fast I can post-process, and it was completely worth the difference in price between our photographer doing all the PP and me doing it.

Plus, this way I was able to do all the layout for our books with my wife's input so that it was all "just right".

If the Mrs. isn't happy, no one is going to be

Mike R wrote in post #5493889
If the Mrs. isn't happy, no one is going to be

You are preachin' to the choir my brother!

I agree with the original poster about CDs being an up and coming method of photography sales, and I also think that the minimal expense of a CD beats print orders by far. Most of my portrait work is sold on CD, and I have done almost no printing in the last year or two.

These things are particularly useful for some of those business propositions mentioned earlier, like canvassing individuals during sports and other events: http://reviews.cnet.co​m/4520-6501_7-5145238-4.html

Burn the CD on the spot, instant gratification.

And as mr. photon says, some people can and prefer to do their own post processing, so it's considered an option, not a necessity. I offer it, but don't force it.

Out of curiousity, what bookbinding company are you going with? One of the traditional matted leather bound books, or a leatherbound flush/coffee table arrangement?

Also, did he give you the RAW files, or just high/medium rez JPG's?

MisterPhoton wrote in post #5493337
..... I know how fast I can post-process, and it was completely worth the difference in price between our photographer doing all the PP and me doing it.

Plus, this way I was able to do all the layout for our books with my wife's input so that it was all "just right".

sapearl wrote in post #5504758
Out of curiousity, what bookbinding company are you going with? One of the traditional matted leather bound books, or a leatherbound flush/coffee table arrangement?

Also, did he give you the RAW files, or just high/medium rez JPG's?

The photographer gave me all RAW files, and we did our books through lulu.com. No leatherbinding, but that's not important to us. We wanted a fun/nice book, not a traditional 'album'.

http://www.lulu.com/en​/products/photo_books/