Most interesting trip...

My wife and I just returned from a week's vacation to the Petrified Forest, Painted Desert, and Canyon de Chelly. I noticed several very interesting things, besides the beautiful scenery.

Stealing a small piece of petrified wood from a National Park is not just "keeping a souvenir." It is theft! From ME, and all other citizens. It is also a Federal crime, for which one cannot plead ignorance (although ignorance is not, and never has been, a valid excuse)--there are signs all over prohibiting it and pointing out the penalties. I was please to report the theft I witnessed to the Rangers, who took swift and effective action--they have absolutely zero tolerance in this area.

Did you know that certain National Parks have so much of this type of crime that they have on-site jail cells?

Not everyone who takes a picture is a photographer! Sorry, purists, some, in fact, most of them are just picture takers.

"Capturing" Anasazi ruins nearly a mile away with a camera phone is not photography! My opinion! I don't even think of it as "picture-taking"! It's just a wast of phone memory.

Ran across a motorcycling semi-pro nature photographer using a Mamiya MF camera, with one hell of a set of lenses for tele shots. And you think your "L" lenses are expensive! Not even close! He was using film, but saving up for his $30,000 digital back!

Beautiful gear! Over $100,000 riding around with him in a custom saddlepack!

Really nice and friendly guy!

Not all were nice, however. There was a group of tourists at Canyon de Chelly completely ignoring both common sense and the posted regulations.

Almost every overlook is at the very edge of an overhanging cliff, and has signs stating things like "Warning! 700 foot sheer drop! Do not lean over or climb upon railings!" and "Warning! Dangerous area! Please watch children and pets carefully!"

This group, two men, two women, and three kids, were as much the "ugly tourists" as it was possible to be. They barged and shoved their way through others indiscriminately, and ignored all the signs. One of the women climbed the railings to lean over and shoot straight down (despite 600-700 foot drops to the bottom with only birds to break one's fall). The children were completely unsupervised and allowed to scream, yell, run around bothering others, and climb all over the rocks and railings.

We, unfortunately, were obliged by circumstance to "share" three overlooks with them. They didn't barge up and shove us, however, which is evidenced by the fact that they are all still ambulatory.

The third overlook was their last. At this overlook, one of the Navajo vendors called the rangers because of the danger to the children. (He couldn't care less if an adult fell. That's their problem.[His words.])

Two rangers showed up promptly, and asked the group (very politely) to control their children, to not climb the railings themselves, and to observe the rights of others. Let us just say that:

1. They felt the rangers should do various anatomically impolite things to themselves, and expressed these feelings verbally in front of others' families.

2. They felt that after traveling all the way there from their own country they could do what they liked, that posted rules and regulations didn't apply to them. They expressed this verbally also.

3. They felt the rangers were just "custodians" and had no authority to tell them what to do. They expressed this, too, in very colorful language.

They were mistaken. Two other ranger SUVs promptly appeared, They were cited (a Federal citation, remember) for misconduct and failure to observe posted regulations, and escorted out of the National Park with instructions not to return for at least 90 days. The citation required them to appear before a Federal magistrate within 30 days.

I ask one of the rangers what would happen if they simply ignored the citation. He said that is what usually happens in these cases, and he hopes they do. Once cited, their names are entered into the national database. If they check in for any flight out of the U.S. before the case is resolved, they will automatically be arrested at the airport. Then they will have bigger problems.

He also said they were one more smart-ass remark away from being arrested on the spot for child endangerment (a felony). He wanted to, but his boss said let it slide. He takes a dim view of people who let their kids play over 700 foot sheer drops.

All in all, it was a most interesting trip. Got lots of good pictures, too.

Oh, yes. If you don'y know the proper pronunciation of "Canyon de Chelly," you are definietly not an Arizonan, natural or transplanted! It's "Canyon d'Shay"!

And the same goes for the Mogollon Rim!

So there!

{slides petrified rock under bed}

Just kidding. Don't own one. HAVE seen them in other's homes, however. Kind of a finite resource in my view. X-million visitors, Y-million bits of rock, X > Y = zero rocks.

20droger wrote in post #5447647
We, unfortunately, were obliged by circumstance to "share" three overlooks with them. They didn't barge up and shove us, however, which is evidenced by the fact that they are all still ambulatory.

So, be honest, how close were you to "un-ambulating" them?

Ever notice when you confront someone who's breaking some social rule or the LAW that they want to turn it around on YOU? It must be some sort of bully thing. They're the ones breaking the law and suddenly YOU'RE the one who's an idiot.

Seeing as you said these people were from another country, I'm glad we don't have the typical "Ugly American" sterotype playing out here.

I don't think it matters what country they're from, but I have to wonder what they were thinking getting into a kerfuffle with the local constabulary. When I'm in a foreign land, the last thing I want to do is speak to anyone at the level of Mall Cop or higher (unless I'm lost ). These morons were essentially telling THE authorities of a federally protected area to get stuffed.

I suspect they're going to be calling their local consulate to get this straightened out. Then of course if they ever try to re-enter the U.S., their names will pop-up and their travel visas will be denied.

Sad. I would have liked to be there when that hits the fan.

asysin2leads wrote in post #5448795
So, be honest, how close were you to "un-ambulating" them?

To be honest, if any one of them, male or female (and the women were the most aggressive), had barged into or attempted to shove my wife aside, they'd have received the full remaining benefit of my very old, but very complete, military training.

They left us alone, but I suspect mostly because I planted my large and angry self between them and my wife at all times, staring at them and glaring. I made it very clear that I didn't like them, and it was in their best interest to leave us alone.

Fortunately, they didn't bother us. I haven't mangled or killed anyone by hand in over forty years, and would like to make it 80. But I do remember how.

Don't mess with my wife. You'd be safer messing with my God, and that is NOT safe.

BillsBayou wrote in post #5447891
Just kidding. Don't own one. HAVE seen them in other's homes, however. Kind of a finite resource in my view. X-million visitors, Y-million bits of rock, X > Y = zero rocks.

Feel free to collect all you want, but from commercial establishments, NOT the Petrified Forest National Park. We have two excellent specimens ourselves, legally obtained.

It's exactly like collecting trilobite fossils. One can get them all over, so why would one feel it was okay to steal them from a museum?

20droger wrote in post #5447647
If they check in for any flight out of the U.S. before the case is resolved, they will automatically be arrested at the airport. Then they will have bigger problems.

That's going to be really funny. Hope they are planning a long vacation here.

Petrified Forest actually has a VERY large pile of pieces that have been returned to the park via the mail. Unfortunately, it is impossible to put them back in the correct place so they get piled up in the back. Some of the returned pieces are in excess of 100lbs.

They sound like English Chavs

I apologise for England if they were indeed allowed into your country.

BillsBayou wrote in post #5448954
Ever notice when you confront someone who's breaking some social rule or the LAW that they want to turn it around on YOU? It must be some sort of bully thing. They're the ones breaking the law and suddenly YOU'RE the one who's an idiot.

Seeing as you said these people were from another country, I'm glad we don't have the typical "Ugly American" sterotype playing out here.

I don't think it matters what country they're from, but I have to wonder what they were thinking getting into a kerfuffle with the local constabulary. When I'm in a foreign land, the last thing I want to do is speak to anyone at the level of Mall Cop or higher (unless I'm lost ). These morons were essentially telling THE authorities of a federally protected area to get stuffed.

I suspect they're going to be calling their local consulate to get this straightened out. Then of course if they ever try to re-enter the U.S., their names will pop-up and their travel visas will be denied.

Sad. I would have liked to be there when that hits the fan.

They DID tell the authorities (the Rangers) to get stuffed, but in much more colorful language, in front of others' children. The Rangers tolerated it until they simply said they would continue to do as they wanted, and there was nothing the Rangers could do about it.

I'm with the Rangers, enough is enough!

And I intentionally didn't say which country they were from, because it was irrelevant to the story. Also, having been in many foreign countries myself, I have seen more than my share of "ugly Americans," and I didn't like them any better. In fact, I liked them much less. After all, The U.S. is my country, and I don't like to see it spat upon. Especially by other Americans.

I'm afraid I have only mellowed with age. When I was very young and in the service, I did extensive traveling for the military while in mufti, and with a red passport (because I often carried stuff not be rummaged through).

On one trip to Europe, there was a problem at Orly and the unloading of the entire flight was delayed. That means all of us we waiting at customs and couldn't be cleared. One particularly nast fat, loud, rude, ugly American was raising holy hell with the poor customs clerk (who obviously could do absolutely nothing). After over an hour's delay, things cleared up. Our fat friend loudly barged his way to the front of the line and threw his passport on the desk in front of the clerk.

I calmly stepped up, placed my passport on top of his, saying, "Excuse me, monsieur. I have a red one."

The clerk looked up! Saw me smiling. Said, "Pardonez, monsieur. But you did not have to wait."

I said, "I know, but I was in no hurry, and it was obvious there was some difficulty beyond your control. I did not mind."

As he stamped my passport and cleared my luggage (without inspection). I said, "Were I you, monsieur, I would check this gentleman's luggage very carefully. I know I would, were he a Frenchman entering my country. And while I have no authority in this area, I would look for some reason to deny him entry. If you need me, I may be reached at the consulate. Bon jour, monsieur. We are not all like that."

And I left.

I do not know what happened to the Ugly American. But the custom's clerk was smiling ear to ear as I left.

eddarr wrote in post #5449041
That's going to be really funny. Hope they are planning a long vacation here.

Petrified Forest actually has a VERY large pile of pieces that have been returned to the park via the mail. Unfortunately, it is impossible to put them back in the correct place so they get piled up in the back. Some of the returned pieces are in excess of 100lbs.

Indeed they do. Their record is a small stone taken by a six year old and return when she was in her nineties.

And what can one say about a 100lb souvenir? That's just flat out theft. Period.

condyk wrote in post #5449076
They sound like English Chavs

I apologise for England if they were indeed allowed into your country.

Actually, no. They were from a large Asian country due to receive an abundance of tourists themselves very soon (if they are not boycotted). And they all spoke excellent English, which leads me to believe they were not, as the leader of that country recently put it, from among the uneducated masses.