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Thread started 03 May 2008 (Saturday) 06:44
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Bird Photography Technique?

 
booju
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May 03, 2008 06:44 |  #1

I am NEW to photography...I have a short lens to get me started with wildlife, birds, and nature type of images...

I have a XTi + 70-200mm f/4L IS USM + 1.4x/TC...

I won't get a bigger lens [400mm] until I can at least master this one first no matter how long it takes...Right now I'm handholding and been out only 3x thus far trying to familiarize myself with this interesting hobby I just undertook...Its exciting and fascinating however I am not impressed with my method and techniques as my images lack the crisp detail I know this combo is capable of...I could use some help and insight in getting me through this learning curve...

1.) In order to get the sharpest images do you use a tripod most of the time?

2.) Do you use a remote shutter release and consider it a must have?

3.) Do you use "Mirror Lock-Up" regularly?

Could a few of you help me understand the benefits of these items as I am considering using them in my shooting style in pursuit of SHARP detailed images....I would like to know EACH of their benefits before I take the PLUNGE....;)

Sorry to be such a noob....BUT I just want to learn real bad!:D




  
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samsen
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May 03, 2008 07:05 |  #2

How about pouring some vodka in birds drinking water, they fly slower, you get better picture....

Art of bird photography is dealing with motion.

Technique you are asking about has omitted the most difficult part of bird shooting, freezing that fast flying subject. When getting into thread, was hopping to see something in that line otherwise I know how to shoot moon.


Weak retaliates,
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Intelligent Ignores!
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Picture editing OK

  
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PhotosGuy
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May 03, 2008 07:56 |  #3

Did you look at the "Sticky" links at the top of "Birds"?
1. Yes/no/maybe
2. No.
3. No.


FrankC - 20D, RAW, Manual everything...
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tdodd
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May 06, 2008 06:38 |  #4

Booju, what sort of bird photography are you talking about - perched or in flight? How big, how fidgetty and how far away are the birds? If you want ultimate sharpness then you need....

- accurate focus
- sufficient depth of field
- fast enough shutter to negate subject movement
- fast enough shutter, or sufficient stability, to prevent camera shake
- sufficient contrat in the scene - the right quality of light and atmosphere
- enough optical magnification to make the bird a meaningful size in the frame

If your bird is perched then a tripod seems to me like a good plan. Mirror lockup can be used if you can aim where the bird is and then lock everything down, hoping the bird does not move away before you are ready to release the shutter.

Little jittery birds need high shutter speeds, as do birds in flight. Big birds may need plenty of DOF. Lots of DOF and high shutter speeds need good light and/or a high ISO. If the birds are moving (in flight) then your tracking skills are paramount, as is good AF performance from your camera.

You also need sufficient optical magnification to make the bird meaningfully big in the frame. If your bird is a little dot hidden somewhere in the frame and you need to crop heavily then your sharpness and IQ will fall apart.

Don't forget that the very best bird pictures you see will probably have had very careful post processing applied, to sharpen the details of the bird perfectly, while leaving the background nicely out of focus. There may well be tweaks to colour and curves to bring out the very best in the bird as well. It is worth shooting raw so that you have the best image data possible from which to create your masterpieces.

If I'm shooting perched birds in the back garden then I'll often use a tipod but not mirror lockup or a remote release. If I'm shooting birds in flight then it's always handheld for me. I've never tried it but I just don't think it would be very easy to track birds, at least at moderatey close distances - say <30m - with a tripod. You just wouldn't have the freedom of movement to respond quickly to random flight patterns. Maybe a big, slow, majestic bird like a swan would be OK, but not a hawk or owl, for example. Most of my bird shots are with my 100-400, at both ends of the zoom range. I like to try to keep shutter speed above 1/500 (preferably more like 1/1000-1/2000 if the light permits) and I normally do use IS. Even perched birds can go blurry at around 1/250, if they are nervous fidgets.

Can you clarify what sort of shot you are wanting to improve? Can you show us some examples, with EXIF intact, and then maybe we can make suggestions as to the best approach for those photographs.




  
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equetefue
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May 06, 2008 07:05 |  #5

I use:

Ai servo
High speed shooting
Center point
Spot metering
AWB
RAW file
Aim for the eyes
Biggest f-stop for separation of bird from scenery and fastest shutter speed in AV mode

IMAGE: http://s152588970.onlinehome.us/PiCs/Birding/Gatorland%20May%205%2008/DPP_0027.JPG

http://www.Photo-Galleria.com (external link)

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EOS R l 5D MkIV l 7D MkII l 5D l 30D IR l 500mm f4 L IS l RF 24-105mm f4 L l 50mm f1.8 l 17-40mm f4 L l 135mm f2 L l 100-400mm f5.6 L L IS II l 100mm f2.8 USM Macro l EF 1.4x III l EF 2.0x III l 580EX II

  
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bobbyz
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May 06, 2008 10:08 |  #6

I don't get this "I would master 70-200mm f4 before buying other lens". 200mm is too short IMHO. Something like 400mm f5.6 would make it so much better.

Now to your points:

1. Tripod helps but not necessary. Your combo can easily be hand held. Shoot at f8 when using 1.4xTC. Make sure shutter speed is high, for me atleast 1/750 when HH (using 400mm f5.6). If you need something to help stabilize, get bogen monpod with 3 little legs like Daniella on dpr has. More flexible than $100 tripod, unles syou already have the tripod.

2. No need for amy release, atleast Ihaven't found any.

3. No mirror lock for me either. But then I don't shoot in tree cover at 1600mm like Romy (liquidstone).

For stationary birds, getting at eye level gives very nice pictures. Aperture is not that important as you can control the back grounds by slightly moving your self. I use manual exposure, center AF point only, focus and recompose.

For BIF's, I use AI servo, focus on the back button (C. Fn 4-3) and no IS, hand held all the time, even with 500mm f4 IS.


Fuji XT-1, 18-55mm
Sony A7rIV, , Tamron 28-200mm, Sigma 40mm f1.4 Art FE, Sony 85mm f1.8 FE, Sigma 105mm f1.4 Art FE
Fuji GFX50s, 23mm f4, 32-64mm, 45mm f2.8, 110mm f2, 120mm f4 macro
Canon 24mm TSE-II, 85mm f1.2 L II, 90mm TSE-II Macro, 300mm f2.8 IS I

  
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poloman
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May 06, 2008 10:59 |  #7

Remember to keep your shutter speed up. Birds make a lot of small fast movements and the wind makes their feathers blow in tiny fast movements. Want to try something tough? Try shooting purple martins on the fly. Spent about 20 minutes the other day and only got 1 decent shot. My birding lens is a 100 to 400mmL.


"All those who believe in psychokinesis, raise my right hand!" Steven Wright

  
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tdodd
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May 08, 2008 13:21 |  #8

There is a dedicated birding website, which I frequent, with a specific forum on technique here.....

http://www.birdforum.n​et/forumdisplay.php?f=​441 (external link)

and their Canon specific forum here....

http://www.birdforum.n​et/forumdisplay.php?f=​292 (external link)




  
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k9mx
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May 08, 2008 20:27 |  #9

If the birds are stationary (sitting on a branch or such), a tripod can help. But if you want to get them in flight, a tripod needs to allow rapid movement or you need to handhold. Since speed is important, you can either set shutter priority up to at least 1/300 second (faster is better, if you have enough light), or set the ISO up higher (noise shouldn't be a problem until you get above 400 and often - if there is enough light - not even at 800), or do both. Then try to focus on the bird's eyes (practice following them). If the eyes are in focus, everything will seem in focus (even though parts of the wings may be blurred). You can see how all this works on my gallery - www.Boydshots.com (external link). But the truth is that 200mm won't do much for small birds unless you're awfully lucky. For larger birds, such as eagles, egrets, herons, etc., 200mm should be pretty good.

booju wrote in post #5452048 (external link)
I am NEW to photography...I have a short lens to get me started with wildlife, birds, and nature type of images...

I have a XTi + 70-200mm f/4L IS USM + 1.4x/TC...

I won't get a bigger lens [400mm] until I can at least master this one first no matter how long it takes...Right now I'm handholding and been out only 3x thus far trying to familiarize myself with this interesting hobby I just undertook...Its exciting and fascinating however I am not impressed with my method and techniques as my images lack the crisp detail I know this combo is capable of...I could use some help and insight in getting me through this learning curve...

1.) In order to get the sharpest images do you use a tripod most of the time?

2.) Do you use a remote shutter release and consider it a must have?

3.) Do you use "Mirror Lock-Up" regularly?

Could a few of you help me understand the benefits of these items as I am considering using them in my shooting style in pursuit of SHARP detailed images....I would like to know EACH of their benefits before I take the PLUNGE....;)

Sorry to be such a noob....BUT I just want to learn real bad!:D




  
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scot079
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May 08, 2008 21:06 |  #10

Add some flash. Google "visual echos better beamer"

You should be able handhold a 280mm IS lens+TC combo


- Tim
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RPCrowe
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May 08, 2008 23:52 |  #11

scot079 wrote in post #5488492 (external link)
Add some flash. Google "visual echos better beamer"

You should be able handhold a 280mm IS lens+TC combo

Here is an example...


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See my images at http://rpcrowe.smugmug​.com/ (external link)

  
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PacAce
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May 09, 2008 07:25 |  #12

scot079 wrote in post #5488492 (external link)
Add some flash. Google "visual echos better beamer"

You should be able handhold a 280mm IS lens+TC combo

RPCrowe wrote in post #5489330 (external link)
Here is an example...

:confused: ???


...Leo

  
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chauncey
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May 09, 2008 15:40 as a reply to  @ PacAce's post |  #13

Don't be to quick to brush off samsen's suggestion involving the vodka.

Frank Buck used the same technique when he captured the first orangatan back in the 1920's in SE Asia someplace.
He got the beast used to drinking out out of a tub of water and starting spiking it until one day it passed out.
Out came the net and away went the orangatan. :lol: Worked for him.


The things you do for yourself die with you, the things you do for others live forever.
A man's worth should be judged, not when he basks in the sun, but how he faces the storm.

My stuff...http://1x.com/member/c​hauncey43 (external link)

  
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Littlefield
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May 09, 2008 16:23 |  #14

Would a 70 -200 f4 IS not be better then a 400 5.6 for small birds since the min focus distance is less if you are closer to the birds? I mean without ext tubes on the 400 5. 6.




  
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tdodd
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May 09, 2008 16:37 |  #15

Littlefield wrote in post #5493390 (external link)
Would a 70 -200 f4 IS not be better then a 400 5.6 for small birds since the min focus distance is less if you are closer to the birds? I mean without ext tubes on the 400 5. 6.

This is a small bird with my 100-400 at 400mm. I guess the distance was about 10' (3m). This is uncropped. I doubt I could have got as close as 5' to this bird without spooking it, but that's where I would need to be in order to get the same shot with a 70-200.

Closest focus on the 400 f/5.6 is 11.5' or 3.5m, so quite close to my distance - for all I know maybe I was at 11.5'. I guess you could get closer with a hide but I reckon 400mm is a good focal length for small birds.


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