Understanding Exposure -:- Alternatives??

Mike R wrote in post #5471764
Does her school offer a photography course as an elective? If so it may be a good thing for Sept.

This is where I got started. There were some photography classes in my High School. I was basically teaching the class by the time I graduated.

If you want to get some of the basics across quickly then I like Ben's sticky at the top of this forum - https://photography-on-the.net/forum/showthre​ad.php?t=414088

There's also this, from Canon - http://web.canon.jp/im​aging/enjoydslr/

For something with a bit more meat there is this online book - http://www.photoworksh​op.com/photo101/fast50

I find UE to be long-winded and in some places really rather confusing - well, I'm not confused, but the procedures described are sometimes obtuse and not the way it is done today with modern equipment. To cover the subject of exposure without reference to histograms is madness. I do not recommend this book to anyone.

tdodd wrote in post #5477117
If you want to get some of the basics across quickly then I like Ben's sticky at the top of this forum - https://photography-on-the.net/forum/showthre​ad.php?t=414088

There's also this, from Canon - http://web.canon.jp/im​aging/enjoydslr/

For something with a bit more meat there is this online book - http://www.photoworksh​op.com/photo101/fast50

I find UE to be long-winded and in some places really rather confusing - well, I'm not confused, but the procedures described are sometimes obtuse and not the way it is done today with modern equipment. To cover the subject of exposure without reference to histograms is madness. I do not recommend this book to anyone.

Explaining histograms to a young child would be very difficult. Even to adults it's confusing. Reading a histogram takes a lot of understanding and experience. Exposure is not all about histograms. What did film guys do for years?

Understanding exposure is a fantastic book that anyone can learn from. use it wioth digital cameras and don't see that it has changed much from film days. We certainly have more technology but the principles are the same.

Don't get me wrong, histograms really do help and there are plenty of resources on-line to help explain these.

A few points....

The OP's daughter is 12, which I would not call especially young.

Almost regardless of age, children today generally have pretty free access to computers, the internet, games consoles etc.. I would hope that by the age of 12 a child would be able to understand a "graph", especially when explained properly, patiently and interactively. What better than a histogram to demonstrate the effect of adjusting exposure settings? We know the preview image on the back of the camera should not be used to judge exposure, but the histogram should. So why not start by teaching correct use of the camera and the 21st century light meter? Even my three year old Sony P&S has a live histogram. I do not believe a 12 year old, who wants to learn to use a DSLR (properly), would be phased by a histogram.

Bryan's waffling, laboured style does not captivate my attention. I wish he'd just get to the point. I'm not convinced it would hold the attention of a 12 year old for long. Does it really need 160 pages to explain the contents of that book? Does it need another 160 pages in another book to explain shutter speed?

Here's an example of his writing style that I do not like - on page 18 in the captioning for the picture he says "As I framed the subject I adjusted the shutter speed until 1/250 was indicated as the correct exposure.". I'm pretty sure he didn't. He adjusted the shutter speed until the meter indicated a correct exposure and it happened, in this case, to end up at 1/250. I'm quite sure he could not care less whether he ended up with 1/250, 1/200 or 1/320 etc.. He didn't care what the shutter speed was, so long as it was a blur/shake free value. He wanted the meter to show the correct exposure (not necessarily centred, by the way). How would he make 1/250 represent the correct exposure if it was not the correct speed for the aperture and ISO? It couldn't be done. He writes things in a kind of backwards and counter-intuitive way. This style surely cannot assist the learning experience. If a newbie was trying to follow the examples here, how would they copy this example? What are the odds that 1/250 would yield a correct exposure? How would they know it was correct. Where is the discussion on how to meter correctly and interpret the meter reading?

Apart from the absence of commentary on histograms I don't recall seeing anything meaningful in the book about flash photography either. I'm not concerned about the full topic of studio strobes etc. but what about the little flash on top of most DSLRs? Is flash exposure irrelevant when trying to shoot a backlit subject, or fill the shadows in the eye sockets? Will a 12 year old not need to use a flash, creatively, or in dim conditions - party for example. Look at the example on pages 14-15 of the old chap in shade against the backdrop of a sunlit shop. He has entirely blown the shop in order to expose the man correctly. What was wrong with using fill flash here? I think fill flash get a one sentence mention on page 112 and is then dismissed because Bryan doesn't like it. I see the picture caption on this page also has the backwards style of setting exposure until the shutter speed becomes such and such. No! He changes the shutter speed until he gets a correct exposure. That might be at 1/250 but it may well not be. 1/250 has precious little to do with anything. What is important is how to read the meter and where to position the needle for this shot. Where is the discussion on that?

Forgive me if I missed part of the book but just how thoroughly does he discuss metering, metering modes and exposure compensation? Understanding exposure is a piece of cake. Understanding metering is where the challenge lies. He seems generally to be casual and evasive about how to meter, for the most part, and just talks about setting the exposure until it is correct. Does he cover spot/partial/CWA/evalu​ative metering in depth? It seems to me he meters by zooming with his lens and/or feet for backlit subjects and then withdraws again to take the shot. Why not just use spot or partial metering? Brother Blue Sky and Mr Green Jeans is all well and good but what about Patsy Palm (with suitable exposure compensation) or Colin Concrete as useful metering targets? Is there a discussion of exposure compensation when faced with a line of groomsmen in black tuxedos, or a bride in white? Where is the discussion on preserving the highlights - and checking the histogram and blinking overexposure indicator to ensure they are safe?

Where is the discussion of a handy exposure guide like the sunny 16 rule, and all the variations on it for alternate lighting conditions? I find that rule to be a godsend for setting perfect manual exposures, quickly. Reference :

http://en.wikipedia.or​g/wiki/Sunny_16_rule
http://medfmt.8k.com/m​f/sunny.html

I suspect if I re-read the book I could find other problems I have with it but I have better things to do.

I'm not deliberately trying to be argumentative but I genuinely do not find that book to be an especially worthy effort for modern day digital photographers. Newbies seem to recommend it to newbies, but they may not know any better. I'm not saying I'm the oracle on the subject - far from it - but I know enough to be able to form an opinion that the book is really not that great.

tdodd wrote in post #5483095
A few points....

The OP's daughter is 12, which I would not call especially young..

Almost regardless of age, children today generally have pretty free access to computers, the internet, games consoles etc.. I would hope that by the age of 12 a child would be able to understand a "graph", especially when explained properly, patiently and interactively. What better than a histogram to demonstrate the effect of adjusting exposure settings? We know the preview image on the back of the camera should not be used to judge exposure, but the histogram should. So why not start by teaching correct use of the camera and the 21st century light meter? Even my three year old Sony P&S has a live histogram. I do not believe a 12 year old, who wants to learn to use a DSLR (properly), would be phased by a histogram.

I agree to an extent but if new to the technology, understanding histograms can be quite technical. When young I wanted things to be easy. Understand the basics first then move onto things a little more complex when I was more intereted in the subject.

UE is an excellent book from which to grasp the basics.

tdodd wrote in post #5483095
Here's an example of his writing style that I do not like - on page 18 in the captioning for the picture he says "As I framed the subject I adjusted the shutter speed until 1/250 was indicated as the correct exposure.". I'm pretty sure he didn't. He adjusted the shutter speed until the meter indicated a correct exposure and it happened, in this case, to end up at 1/250. I'm quite sure he could not care less whether he ended up with 1/250, 1/200 or 1/320 etc.. He didn't care what the shutter speed was, so long as it was a blur/shake free value. He wanted the meter to show the correct exposure (not necessarily centred, by the way). How would he make 1/250 represent the correct exposure if it was not the correct speed for the aperture and ISO? It couldn't be done.

In that section you note above, you may have missed he'd already set the aperture to f4. ISO can be changed with digital but at this early stage in the book he had not introduced the subjecty of ISO (see page 20-21 for that)!!

Also I do believe that at this early stage in the book, when he refers to a correct exposure, that is exactly what he means - a centred meter. He discusses exposure metering later in the book but perhaps you didn't read that far?!

tdodd wrote in post #5483095
He writes things in a kind of backwards and counter-intuitive way. This style surely cannot assist the learning experience. If a newbie was trying to follow the examples here, how would they copy this example? What are the odds that 1/250 would yield a correct exposure? How would they know it was correct. Where is the discussion on how to meter correctly and interpret the meter reading?

I think you missed the point of the example.

tdodd wrote in post #5483095
Apart from the absence of commentary on histograms I don't recall seeing anything meaningful in the book about flash photography either. I'm not concerned about the full topic of studio strobes etc. but what about the little flash on top of most DSLRs? Is flash exposure irrelevant when trying to shoot a backlit subject, or fill the shadows in the eye sockets? Will a 12 year old not need to use a flash, creatively, or in dim conditions - party for example. Look at the example on pages 14-15 of the old chap in shade against the backdrop of a sunlit shop. He has entirely blown the shop in order to expose the man correctly. What was wrong with using fill flash here? I think fill flash get a one sentence mention on page 112 and is then dismissed because Bryan doesn't like it. I see the picture caption on this page also has the backwards style of setting exposure until the shutter speed becomes such and such. No! He changes the shutter speed until he gets a correct exposure. That might be at 1/250 but it may well not be. 1/250 has precious little to do with anything. What is important is how to read the meter and where to position the needle for this shot. Where is the discussion on that?

Whilst I agree in part, flash exposure is another subject altogether and to write a book about basic exposure would to me make this book overly complex for the target market. A flash exposure book would be something I would purchase now

tdodd wrote in post #5483095
Forgive me if I missed part of the book but just how thoroughly does he discuss metering, metering modes and exposure compensation?

See above

tdodd wrote in post #5483095
Understanding exposure is a piece of cake. Understanding metering is where the challenge lies. He seems generally to be casual and evasive about how to meter, for the most part, and just talks about setting the exposure until it is correct. Does he cover spot/partial/CWA/evalu​ative metering in depth?

The target market is the learner and as a basic book I think it covers most popular situations. Once you want more then I'm sure there must be another book that would satisfy the more advanced user. I find trial and error helps.

tdodd wrote in post #5483095
It seems to me he meters by zoomng with his lens and/or feet for backlit subjects and then withdraws again to take the shot. Why not just use spot or partial metering? Brother Blue Sky and Mr Green Jeans is all well and good but what about Patsy Palm (with suitable exposure compensation) or Colin Concrete as useful metering targets? Is there a discussion of exposure compensation when faced with a line of groomsmen in black tuxedos, or a bride in white? Where is the discussion on preserving the highlights - and checking the histogram and blinking overexposure indicator to ensure they are safe?

Some good points there but the book was made in the days of film so "blinking exposures" will not be covered until his next version is out - which can't be too far off!

tdodd wrote in post #5483095
Where is the discussion of a handy exposure guide like the sunny 16 rule, and all the variations on it for alternate lighting conditions?

Maybe this is just getting more complex and advanced for learners? Everyone learns at different rates and the book as it is does a fine job explaining the basics in an easy to learn way.

tdodd wrote in post #5483095
I'm not deliberately trying to be argumentative but I genuinely do not find that book to be an especially worthy effort for modern day digital photographers. Newbies seem to recommend it to newbies, but they may not know any better. I'm not saying I'm the oracle on the subject - far from it - but I know enough to be able to form an opinion that the book is really not that great.

I agree the book does not discuss digital cameras but it doesn't really need to as the basics are pretty much the same. There are differences of course but the book was written before the huge digital boom (4 years ago). I'm sure his update will sort that out.

Everyone will get something different from the book (whether positive or negative) and I can honestly say you are the first person I've heard give it negative feedback. Maybe you looked for too much? Maybe you knew most of this before you bought it? It helped me a lot when I got my first dSLR and I do still find it useful to look at now and again.

As you point out though, there is a whole lot more that could be included. Lets hope we see more in the update.

safehaven wrote in post #5468510
My 12 y.o. daughter "says" she wants to learn how to take photos with a dSLR. I have no objection with her using my 300D that I do not use anymore. When at all possible, I try and find reasons to make my kids read. None of them really like reading, so if there is anyway to take advantage of the situation to get them to read something, I hop on the chance.

Well, since she REALLY wants to use the dRebel. I REALLY want her to read. So, I told her that if she reads Understanding Exposure, then I'd let her have at it with the dRebel. I don't really want to buy the book, since the attention span for most of the things she is interested in last for about 12 minutes. So, I thought I'd check it out from the library. WRONG! Our library system has 4 copies of it with 15 people in wait for it.

So, does anyone else have a 12 y.o. friendly book that they can recommend that is similar to Understanding Exposure?

Do you want her to read or to learn about exposure?

If you want her to read, I think there are better suited books. If you want her to learn about exposure, you could just let her browse the internet

I've never read understanding exposure. I did read "the camera", "the negative" and "the print" by Ansel Adams. Then again, I'm on the nerdy side

Thanks for all of the advice and recommendations everyone. I ended up using tdodd's links as a guide. They gave her just enough knowledge that I wasn't getting a completely dumbfounded look when I said things like shutter speed and ISO. Here are a couple of shots I took of her on her first excursion out, in our cul-de-sac. She is snapping away and chimping like a pro already

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