trying to get it right- tmr,custis and friends

this may be a little long ,but, im really trying to get this dialed in and from where i was a couple of months ago and where i am today is a big difference. want to say a huge thanks to curtis and to tmr and lightman for that outstanding post where tmr and lightman dialed in the lights on the plastic model. the lessons there were invaluable for me. i tried to follow that step by step and i really saw a huge improvement but its still not right. im seeing the light better and better each day. so i posted a few pics so you could see my process and where im at.

1st pic will show a blacked out background
2nd pic will show my lovely wife,,lights lighting the mask only
3rd pic with a background light and some light reflecting for the hair
4th---thinking im finally seeing it and making suttle adjustments
5th--darn shadows across left eye. lights stayed in same position,,just repositioned the mask. not sure why the shadow came into play here

of course all advise will be greatly appreciated. these pics were shot with 3 ab400's. 1 background,1 main witha #20 grid,1 with an umbrella. main was at f/2.8. fill at f2.0.

thanks in advance

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if you are asking about the shadow, it is because the main light is low and of a relatively hard quality.

suyenfung wrote in post #5475262
if you are asking about the shadow, it is because the main light is low and of a relatively hard quality.

the problem i had was no matter how hard i tried, i couldnt get the main and the fill light with umbrellas attached to not allow the background to go black. i was 7-8 ft from the background and the umbrellas lit eveything up. so, i put the grid on the main and metered at 2.8 for some control, metered the fill with an umbrella at 2.0 and was able to get the mask lit and the background black.

im going to use a softbox for the main when it arrives,and use an umbrella for the fill and re-try. im where you are at,thinking that the main with the grid is just to harsh. i did not try to shoot it through a panel because its not made yet. still working on that. but im thinking ill buy one from lightman and try to solve that issue

also, am i on the right track with regards to lighting the mask correctly, trying to get the light on the mask right,trying to follow scotts information in his book,and get the process down right. my light meter tells me its right. but to me at f2.8, the skin looks over overexposed, and if i stop it down to 3.2 it looks better, trying to get the ratio's right with main and fill to get the correct exposure on the face

a better way to handle the spill would have been to move the umbrella closer to the subject.

in this case, in controlling spill, distance to background is only relevant relatively, or when compared to the distance between the light and subject. if you are 8 feet from the bg and the light is 8 feet from you, the bg is getting 2 stops less light, which you are still able to see in the image. move the light in to 4 feet, and the bg is getting 4 stops less light, not contributing much if anything to the exposure.

i would also suggest moving the main light higher. if the shadow cast by the main light were moving more downward, you would get so much shadow in the crevice on the cheek. also if the main light were more in front of the subject you would be getting more light into the eye socket. for starters try and keep the main light catchlight at 11 o clock.

the meter being hot doesn't surprise me, there can be a discrepancy between the meter and the camera. using my 30d, i often think shots are underexposed, with the 5d, the meter and the camera generally agree. there is a global calibration setting on my meter to compensate for this.

If you're going for loop lighting then you're on the right track but still not there. As was stated earlier, your main light is producing high contrast lighting and it is much too low. For this type of shot you generally are going to want to soften and diffuse the light as much as possible with a large modifier placed very close to the subject and brought forward so you get a pleasing wrap around quality.

You also want to work on the position and placement of your fill light source. With adult faces that have lines and wrinkles the fill light plays a very valuable role in softening those lines and lessening the shadows created by them. Reflectors work very well for this and if you're going to use a powered light source then you want to get the fill as close to the lens' axis as possible, and create a large soft fill light.

For now, I would concentrate on lighting the facial mask and worry about the backgrounds later. If you want lighter backgrounds then either place your subject close to the background or increase the power level on your strobes so more light reaches the background, or go the other way if you want it dark, but worry about that aspect after you've mastered basic loop lighting.

TMR Design wrote in post #5482977
If you're going for loop lighting then you're on the right track but still not there. As was stated earlier, your main light is producing high contrast lighting and it is much too low. For this type of shot you generally are going to want to soften and diffuse the light as much as possible with a large modifier placed very close to the subject and brought forward so you get a pleasing wrap around quality.

You also want to work on the position and placement of your fill light source. With adult faces that have lines and wrinkles the fill light plays a very valuable role in softening those lines and lessening the shadows created by them. Reflectors work very well for this and if you're going to use a powered light source then you want to get the fill as close to the lens' axis as possible, and create a large soft fill light.

For now, I would concentrate on lighting the facial mask and worry about the backgrounds later. If you want lighter backgrounds then either place your subject close to the background or increase the power level on your strobes so more light reaches the background, or go the other way if you want it dark, but worry about that aspect after you've mastered basic loop lighting.

thanks guys,,really appreciate the critique

got a soft box today and im making some cool diffusers. good to know im on the right track. gonna play with lighting positions as suggested and at some point,,I WILL MASTER BASIC LOOP PIGHTING. scotts book is a big help and you guys with alot of experience are invaluable. again,,thanks a ton. round #2 will be coming :p