Max Sync Speed of d-lite 2 & 4?

You don't have to believe those of us that own and have tested these strobes. You can do as I did and email Elinchrom or buy a set and test them yourself. Elinchrom will tell you that most Digital SLR cameras will sync comfortably up to 1/160 and some have reported consistent sync at 1/200. Since we know that radio and wireless triggers can play a part is this I've done my testing with a sync cable, thus eliminating the transmitter/receiver lag an gotten the same results. Some cameras, primarily point and shoot with a hot shoe, can sync at 1/250.

I shoot with a Nikon and Randy shoots Canon, so we're seeing this with both platforms, and regardless of whether you're using sync cables or radio triggers. Even if you could get up to 1/200 or 1/250 you have to look at the big picture. As great as Elinchrom D-Lites are and as much as I rave about them, they are absolutely not intended for sports or action. That's not to say that you can't use them successfully outside and on location but you have to look at the flash duration as well. They simply are not fast enough to freeze action or high speed events.

If you then look at a strobe like an Elinchrom Style 1200 RX you'll see that the flash duration is amazingly fast and you can comfortably sync at 1/250s as long as your camera and triggering are capable. It's intended for freezing action and it's also got gobs of power for shooting outside on a sunny day and having control over ambient to flash ratios.

I know there are many people far more knowledgeable about strobes but when it comes to Elinchrom I highly recommend that you speak with Frank Doorhof. I always forget his ID here on POTN but he runs his own discussion forum and answers every single question himself. He uses Elinchrom and is a pretty smart fellow. You can check out his forums at:
http://www.doorhof.nl/​blog/index.php

You'll see that there is a large Elinchrom user base there as well so it's a good place to ask about accessories and get technical questions answered.

theusername wrote in post #5485942
Sync speed is really a non-issue when it comes to the Elinchroms or any other studio lighting brand. The most important feature that a studio lighting kit should have for stopping action is a short flash duration. If someone is interested in syncing studio lights at really fast camera shutter speeds then he should probably be using something other than a Canon.

Don't worry about it...it's kind of a non-issue

So if I'm balancing ambient, mainly with shooting outside, or fighting the sun the extra shutter speed isn't necessary?

(that one's rhetorical by the way)

As much as I'd prefer the Elinchroms, I might go and buy a bee to see how it works. I mean it's duration ranges from 1/1650 - 1/3300 as you start at the low end and crank up the power...I think. Why's it have flash durations for t1 and t5?

theusername wrote in post #5485942
Sync speed is really a non-issue when it comes to the Elinchroms or any other studio lighting brand. The most important feature that a studio lighting kit should have for stopping action is a short flash duration. If someone is interested in syncing studio lights at really fast camera shutter speeds then he should probably be using something other than a Canon.

Don't worry about it...it's kind of a non-issue

Try to think outside your studio for a minute.

If you're shooting in sunshine and your strobe works at 1/250, you can shoot at f/10. If you need to slow down your shutter to 1/125, your aperture must now be at f/14 for the same ambient exposure. You have now gone past the diffraction-limited aperture for a 1.6x camera and you have doubled the motion blur you will get from moving subjects. Image quality is now degraded for two reasons, just because of the flash duration.

In the category of entry-level strobes (or entry-level anything), there are compromises to be made. There is plenty to like about the D-Lites, but their longer flash duration may be a deal-breaker, depending on how you intend to use them.

A quick look at their specs compared to another popular, low-priced brand tells a compelling story:

Flash duration at full power (t0.5 basis)
Alienbees B400 (160w-s) 1/6000
Elinchrom D-Lite 2 (200w-s) 1/1200
Alienbees B800 (320w-s) 1/3300
Elinghrom D-Lite 4 (400w-s) 1/800
Alienbees B1600 (640w-s) 1/1800

The Alienbees website also lists the t0.1 flash duration (which is about three times longer than t0.5) and the duration at 1/32 power (which is about twice as long as full power). My hunch is that these numbers on the D-Lites would be pretty scary.

This is not about Alienbees vs. D-Lites. It's about carefully considering all of the specifications to determine which product is best for your intended use.

This is why the OP asked the question, and he has told us why he is legitimately concerned about an issue which may be irrelevant to others.

Village_Idiot wrote in post #5486057
Why's it have flash durations for t1 and t5?

t0.5 is the time it takes for the strobe output to drop to half its maximum brightness.

t0.1 is the time it takes to drop to 1/10 its maximum brightness.

t0.1 will always be longer, though how much longer depends on the output curve for the strobe in question.

More info on the Alienbees specifications page.

This thread isn't about Alienbees, but there are some sample shots from me and Leo using The B1600 and the B800 at 1/32 power, triggered various ways. It may be useful to you.

theusername wrote in post #5486285
yeah but the color shifts on alien bees are pretty scary too

I'm trying to nip this issue in the bud right now before lurking newbies start making a big deal out of Elinchrom sync speeds when it's a non-issue. Studio lighting is a different ballgame with different rules than outdoor location lighting. Studio lighting should be judged by short flash duration, consistent color temperature and consistent output. Sync speed just shouldn't be a factor for considering studio lighting equipment.

Sync speed is definitely an issue for lighting gear intended to be used outdoors and on location. But that's not what D-lites are designed to do...

But the D-lites are a good quality entry level mono light. Something that some one may be considering and knowing the limitations can be important.

Just because a light is supposed to be used in the studio because that's the place people traditionally use it, doesn't mean it can't be put to use for other applications with creative results. Think outside the box. That's how good ideas for photos are found.

Curtis - Thanks for the link. I'm still debating though...I'll decide on what I want one day.

It looks like there are apples and oranges being mixed in the same discussion basket so let's try to sort them out, shall we?

First, there was a concern about the max sync speed of the D-Lite strobes being lower than that of the camera. As true as this may be, that in itself shouldn't be a bad thing except in the case, as Curtis pointed out earlier, where you're trying to overpower the sun or, at least, have a fighting chance against it. But is 2/3 of a stop difference (1/250 vs 1/160) really going to make a difference when we're talking about the sun?

Mention was also made about using the strobes to freeze action. Again, does the max sync speed of the strobe matter here? When working with flashes and strobes, it's not the shutter speed that determines whether action or motion is frozen by the flash. It's the flash duration that does. So, a whether the shutter speed is set 1/250 or 1/160, it's not going to matter. So, depending on what type of action is supposed to be frozen, the flash duration of the D-Lite strobes may or may not accomplish that. Something to consider, of course, but again, it has nothing to do with the max sync speed the strobe is capable of working with.

Ok, I went back and checked my EXif data, and using my 40D with an 85mm 1.8 and the synch cord that came with the kit, I have several shots at 1/250, at various aperatures, without a trace of shutter shade. The best I could do with the Skyports is 1/180.

TMR Design wrote in post #5485821
You don't have to believe those of us that own and have tested these strobes. You can do as I did and email Elinchrom or buy a set and test them yourself. Elinchrom will tell you that most Digital SLR cameras will sync comfortably up to 1/160 and some have reported consistent sync at 1/200. Since we know that radio and wireless triggers can play a part is this I've done my testing with a sync cable, thus eliminating the transmitter/receiver lag an gotten the same results. Some cameras, primarily point and shoot with a hot shoe, can sync at 1/250.

I shoot with a Nikon and Randy shoots Canon, so we're seeing this with both platforms, and regardless of whether you're using sync cables or radio triggers. Even if you could get up to 1/200 or 1/250 you have to look at the big picture. As great as Elinchrom D-Lites are and as much as I rave about them, they are absolutely not intended for sports or action. That's not to say that you can't use them successfully outside and on location but you have to look at the flash duration as well. They simply are not fast enough to freeze action or high speed events.

If you then look at a strobe like an Elinchrom Style 1200 RX you'll see that the flash duration is amazingly fast and you can comfortably sync at 1/250s as long as your camera and triggering are capable. It's intended for freezing action and it's also got gobs of power for shooting outside on a sunny day and having control over ambient to flash ratios.

I know there are many people far more knowledgeable about strobes but when it comes to Elinchrom I highly recommend that you speak with Frank Doorhof. I always forget his ID here on POTN but he runs his own discussion forum and answers every single question himself. He uses Elinchrom and is a pretty smart fellow. You can check out his forums at:
http://www.doorhof.nl/​blog/index.php

You'll see that there is a large Elinchrom user base there as well so it's a good place to ask about accessories and get technical questions answered.

https://photography-on-the.net/forum/member.p​hp?u=10577

That would do it. Thanks tiler65.

I may just go with the Bees for the time being and upgrade to something a bit more reliable if I start getting an income from the photography thing. Never hurts to have backups, eh?

The 600RX's look nice....for about 3x's the cost.

TMR Design wrote in post #5481736
As many of us have tested and discovered, regardless of the max sync speed of your camera or radio triggers, the Elinchrom D-Lites will not sync faster than 1/160s without showing the first signs of shutter curtain in the frame.

This is absolutley untrue. I can show you pictures with their metadata and i've shot them at 1/250 easy. Again, anything more than this is mute because of the camera. It's a camera limitation..

Alright, then we'll agree to disagree. I can only go by my own tests, the test results I've seen from others and what I was told directly from Elinchrom.

I never said that you absolutely can't sync faster, given the right conditions, but Elinchrom states that they can only guarantee sync speeds of 1/125 and 1/160 based on camera and shutter mechanics. You (or your friends) are lucky if they can consistently sync at those speeds.

irishman wrote in post #5489029
Ok, I went back and checked my EXif data, and using my 40D with an 85mm 1.8 and the synch cord that came with the kit, I have several shots at 1/250, at various aperatures, without a trace of shutter shade. The best I could do with the Skyports is 1/180.

Thank you very much Irsish... This is what I've been saying all the while. We're not talking about freezing action, but let's face it. 1/250 does help when you have model or a bride moving and posing. The limitation is on the transmitter, not the lights themselves or the camera.

Rebels, XXD's and I think 5D's are rated at max sync 1/250.. that's it..

1D's are 1/500th..

it's simple..

Now from what I understand, PW's are more reliable at faster sync speeds than 1/160.

Hey Rob.. no argument.. I just know how I've been shooting..

nice port by the way..

Just for reference, I have no problem using 1/320 with my ABs. I have tried both 30d and 1dmk2 and I don't get any black bars. Anything higher and the black bars start appearing at the bottom of the frame.

Since I don't shoot my ABs at very low powers, I don't see color variations from shot to shot.

In the end I think both are nice starting lights, just buy what you feel comfortable with it.