Soft Box vs. Umbrellas

I'm sure there is a lot that can be done with umbrellas, but directional light provides control and can produce effects that I don't believe can be created without that level of control.

form wrote in post #5493252
I'm sure there is a lot that can be done with umbrellas, but directional light provides control and can produce effects that I don't believe can be created without that level of control.

Umbrella provide close to the same level of control (I said close to)

What cant you do with an umbrella that you can with a softbox?

jrsforums wrote in post #5490837
There are lots of opinions on this....as many or more than the offerings we have to separate us from our $$$s.....and I have participated in this with "Fongs", umbrellas, etc....

Since this thread started about hotshoe falshes, I figured I would add my view.

I like hotshoe flashes for portability and ease of setup. As Rene mentioned above, umbrellas are often a good match for that.

However, over the last year or so I have found that I can get just as good...often better...results using the 9"x12" diffusers that Chuck Gardner talks about here: http://super.nova.org/​DPR/DIY01/

I cannot describe it better than Chuck in his tutorial, but the key is that the perception of softness is provided by the proper placement and ratios of the key, fill, and, if used, rim/background lights.

So...I am not proposing this for all, but it works for me.....is EXTREMELY portable...and provides great, soft, controlable lighting.....and you can try it for VERY little $$$s.

been looking in to buying one i seen online for like $20 but i guess i can try it for free now.... thanx for the post

Really liking this thread!

I am a newbie photog myself, and i am only now getting into the world of off camera lights. I am struggling with myself on either getting 580ex and stands / umbrellas or getting something like Elinchrom d-lites.

I really like the idea of the setup being as portable as possible ( even it it costs some power ), so i would love to avoid real studio lights, if it's possible to get near same results with a lighter setup.

The same thing you can do with a beauty dish that you can't do with an umbrella: make highly directional light that hits soft where you want it, and doesn't hit what you don't want it to, even if that may be immediately adjacent to the part being struck.

If you're getting off-camera hot shoe flash, speedlites are a much more expensive and hardly more effective option than models like the Sunpak 383S.

form wrote in post #5494086
The same thing you can do with a beauty dish that you can't do with an umbrella: make highly directional light that hits soft where you want it, and doesn't hit what you don't want it to, even if that may be immediately adjacent to the part being struck.

If you're getting off-camera hot shoe flash, speedlites are a much more expensive and hardly more effective option than models like the Sunpak 383S.

You're right, my problem is that i already have a 430EX II, and i need some way to trigger it wireless. So, either i get the 580EX II or i have to get some triggers that aren't too cheap.

So, i am guessing that getting the 580 might be a good choice, then i would have two flashes and the other one would work as a wireless slave.

And then if i get the triggers i would have two wireless flashes

But first i need some more information what can i do with just speedlites, umbrellas and reflectors, and what i can't.
The cost of an Elinchrom d-lite set with 2 softboxes, stands and lights is actually a lot less than getting a portable umbrella set with stands, speedlites and triggers. And the portability of that setup might suit better for my "hobbyist" needs.

form wrote in post #5494086
The same thing you can do with a beauty dish that you can't do with an umbrella: make highly directional light that hits soft where you want it, and doesn't hit what you don't want it to, even if that may be immediately adjacent to the part being struck.

If you're getting off-camera hot shoe flash, speedlites are a much more expensive and hardly more effective option than models like the Sunpak 383S.

Can you post an example? I think I understand what type of shot you mean, but to be sure an example would be nice.

I believe the same shot can be produced with umbrellas (or just speedlites)

With the money you save by buying sunpak 383S flashes ($80) as opposed to a speedlite 580EX ($280+), you can buy elinchrom universal skyports ($180 for first trigger/receiver). After that, each additional receiver is only $100, which becomes more and more cost effective with each hot shoe flash, since each additional flash+receiver combo is only costing $180 instead of $280. Furthermore, those receivers are usable on larger studio strobes as well. AND, I understand they're more reliable and can trigger across a greater distance than the Speedlites' wireless system.

If I had the money to afford the Speedlites, I'd still buy the Sunpak 383s. I have one speedlite for eTTL functions when I need quick and dirty and don't have time to adjust settings. The rest is manual flash, and I have rarely wished I had otherwise.

What you can do with umbrellas, reflectors, and hot shoe flashes: A lot. Indoor key and fill lights, outdoor fill and fill flash, background lights, hair lights, etc.

What you can't do with umbrellas: Make the light quite as directional. This capabilities of directional light became desirable to me only when I started looking at really artistic or very professional commercial/fashion/gla​mour work. And even then, sometimes umbrellas are called for, I understand. Sometimes they're even great for a specific purpose, though so are flags.

Just my quicky $.02 worth here, but I'm now using both. I use a small monolight as my main light with a softbox and I'm using a Metz hot shoe fired into a silver/gold umbrella as my fill (very nice too that silver/gold combo). I've also done some location stuff with just the Metz and the umbrella used with natural light...again does some very nice stuff.

As others have said, it's just different ways of doing things and every one has their own aproach.

Okies...again just a quick $.02 worth,
Peace,
Jim

Thank you...I'm glad I'm not the only one!

Peace,
Jim

Softboxes and umbrella's are just a crutch for sloppy lighting. People who haven't learned to effectively use their lighting can gimp out with them.

RandyMN wrote in post #5495222
Softboxes and umbrella's are just a crutch for sloppy lighting. People who haven't learned to effectively use their lighting can gimp out with them.

I take offense to these kinds of blanket statements. Speak for yourself and not those you don't know.

Franko515 wrote in post #5493419
What cant you do with an umbrella that you can with a softbox?

Simulate natural window light.

I use umbrellas because they're compact, cheap, and uber-fast to set up and tear down. They're better for on-location and limited-space work/storage. I'd much rather use my 6' softbox though.

To me, beside giving more even and softer light, softbox has better directional controls, specially the ones with recessed front lip and fabric grids.

1) To prevent light hitting the BG, SB does better job than umbrella.

2) I can feather the light better with SB.

3) I can place a SB lot closer to the subject.

4) I can turn a large softbox into a smaller SB by using a gobo to block portion of the SB off.

5) Sometimes when I need ground level or upward lighting, I just take the SB/strobe off the lightstand and lay them on the floor. Lot tougher to do that with a bounce amb.

Will larger umbrella be a good idea? as i have that small economic umbrella coming as kit, but i feel i should try or get another umbrella larger, but i am happy with my octabox very much, and my small softbox and small umbrella can do the job but i feel they are limitations sometimes more than larger gear i think.