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FORUMS Photo Sharing & Visual Enjoyment Sports 
Thread started 11 May 2008 (Sunday) 00:08
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Little League Baseball Game

 
CanonXtiDude
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May 11, 2008 00:08 |  #1

This was my first game. I handed out cards for parents to purchase them off my site. 15$ each or if you buy two or more they are $8 each. Let me know what you think of my pricing as well as the pictures. Would these be the kind of pictures parents would buy and how do you like my work? I took them with a Canon 5D and a 200MM fixed L lens (super sharp!!!) Some of them had a 2X teleconverter on it from Tamron.

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MJPhotos24
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May 11, 2008 01:03 |  #2

#1 - $15 for what? 8x10? 5x7? That's a bit strange of a drop off price wise as well. Structure would make more sense with something like $15 for one, $12/each for two, $10 for three or more, etc. It depends on your location to set your prices so you need to do research of your area and what the norm is and what you can offer. Also parents don't always like just prints so it's best to offer other products, or at least print sizes.

While on the subject you did get permission from the league to shoot and offer prints right? If you're stepping on someone else's toes that's not a good thing and some other photog might have an agreement with the league/teams. Agreements sometimes say Photog A has rights to T&I images while Photog B shoots action, or sometimes no photog has landed it, either way do your research and find out.

Considering it's your first game it's strange to me to hand out cards and try to sell them in all honesty - maybe it's just me but I prefer to know the questions you asked before actually doing it....just like going to a dentist, I prefer the one that took the time and went to learn, not the guy who found a drill and floss in his dads basement and thought he'd give it a shot. My first youth league I shot after months of researching prices and the such, even though I had shot pro sports for several years it's a different market and need to know the in's and out's and what the good/bad will come of it.

#3 - crop, crop, crop. There's way to much background and not much difference between these and mom and dads photos because of it as they are not straight and just snap shots at this moment - to sell well you need to seperate your images from ma/pa's and make them stick out. It's when you start getting the questions "how did you....how can I...." in that they want to do what you are doing but can't that you know you're doing it right and have something to offer.

#4 - Take the body off TV and go to Manual, you have a 200 2.8 so use it. Those backgrounds are distracting and parents want a photo of there kid sticking out, not the Astros fan in the background with his mouth open in every shot. Crop would help that some but having it a lower f/stop would be even better. If you can get closer, get closer as that will help with the "blur" as well and makes the kids stick out more. I get asked that so many times throughout the year - "how did you make Timmy stick out so much?" just by having a low f/stop. Some of your shots have good action but would be soooo much better changing the settings and getting lower f/stop and higher shutter.

LASTLY - follow posting rules, the limit is 8 photos!


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jimmywires
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May 11, 2008 01:21 |  #3

this one is EZ to answer...Say dude did you ever have a son in little league? And would you pay 15 dollars for a pic? I'm green like you, this is my second week at it and no bites yet. If you're a parent I'll know what will sell and how much you would pay. The first thing i noticed is the horizontal lines, lots of them are off and you need to crop tighter. Ain't this fun...no grass cutting on saturdays lol good luck and hope to see more




  
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CanonXtiDude
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May 11, 2008 05:18 |  #4

MJPhotos24 wrote in post #5500810 (external link)
#1 - $15 for what? 8x10? 5x7? That's a bit strange of a drop off price wise as well. Structure would make more sense with something like $15 for one, $12/each for two, $10 for three or more, etc. It depends on your location to set your prices so you need to do research of your area and what the norm is and what you can offer. Also parents don't always like just prints so it's best to offer other products, or at least print sizes.

While on the subject you did get permission from the league to shoot and offer prints right? If you're stepping on someone else's toes that's not a good thing and some other photog might have an agreement with the league/teams. Agreements sometimes say Photog A has rights to T&I images while Photog B shoots action, or sometimes no photog has landed it, either way do your research and find out.


#3 - crop, crop, crop. There's way to much background and not much difference between these and mom and dads photos because of it as they are not straight and just snap shots at this moment - to sell well you need to seperate your images from ma/pa's and make them stick out. It's when you start getting the questions "how did you....how can I...." in that they want to do what you are doing but can't that you know you're doing it right and have something to offer.

LASTLY - follow posting rules, the limit is 8 photos!

I am new to this. My plan was for $15 the parent gets the file emailed to them to print as they choose. I dont anticipate repeat business off a picture like this so I would much rather have the ease of not having to print the file. Thoughts.

I went along with a friend who shoots this particular league all the time. As far as I know they have a regular photog for group shots but do not have anyone that does action shots.

This was as close as I could get on the shots. I did a few on 2.8 but i'll try to do many more next time. Tried to move around etc but due to the way the field was laid out this was as close as I could get.




  
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CanonXtiDude
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May 11, 2008 05:42 |  #5

Is this a better crop for a 5X7? Does anyone here shoot raw for sports?


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pigtailpat
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May 11, 2008 06:02 |  #6

CanonXtiDude wrote in post #5501440 (external link)
I am new to this. My plan was for $15 the parent gets the file emailed to them to print as they choose. I dont anticipate repeat business off a picture like this so I would much rather have the ease of not having to print the file. Thoughts.

$15.00 for a file I have to print myself? I think you are doing this wrong. I shoot my son's little league team, and this is my second year. Since I am learning, and also, since money changes everything the way I feel about shooting, I don't accept money at all. Let me tell you, most of the parents I have dealt with have no idea what to do with a photographic file. They have no idea about ICC profiles, printing profiling and the like, and have no way of getting a nice print. This is part of the reason you are not getting bites, plus your pictures themselves are not selling because they are not the kind parents want for the reasons noted above.

If you want money from the parents, you have to offer them a finished product (i.e. an actual print), instead of just a file they have to print themselves. I have 4 sons total, 2 who will turn 21 in Aug, a 13 yr. old and an 11 year old. Let me tell you, I know and understand little league parents, even if my photography time has been short. You'll do much better if you offer a finished product that the parents do not have manipulate themselves. If there is a Costco's near you, get a membership and download their profiles and you can print everything there with a professional finish that will help you with selling the prints. You should want to control that process, because if parents take your file, attempt to print it themselves and it comes out bad due to profiling mismatch or whatever, they are going to feel like they have been ripped off, and you will find that no one will want to deal with you.

Pat


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MJPhotos24
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May 11, 2008 12:25 |  #7

Some parents do want files to print themselves - I sold a bunch from the NYS Wrestling Championships since the company I was shooting for offered them and I don't on my site - though am considering it heavily. I know a few photogs who make a living by shooting a game and giving CD's to parents with 30-50 images of there kid for a good price tag, $15/8 is pretty low no matter what your market. The market is pretty bad around here and that's low to me - and I'm told my prices are too low on a wide scale, but this area isn't to well off right now so try to keep the prices reasonable. Selling digital files though you need to offer something again, preferably all the post work. They want to open the disc and just select "5x7_MJ003.JPG" to send in and not do it themselves. So you need to crop, color correct, sharpen, unsharpen, whatever, for them so they can just hit print or send it in to costco or whatever. You also should always include a written letter saying the parents have permission to print the images you took. Copyright doesn't change but allow them to print the images since they paid for a digital file - you always want to keep the copyright, what if little Timmy becomes a superstar and SI wants a pic of him when he was a wee lad? Long shot but who knows.

Biggest problem I have with offering digital files is what Pat mentioned, they don't print it right and the final product looks like crap. Then uncle Johnny who was going to hire me to shoot his son comes over and sees a crappy print asking who did such shotty work and my name of course is the one dropped. Uncle Johnny didnt realize mom tried to edit the photo and printed it on horrible paper and had no clue what to do. I just always prefer they get it from the lab I use because they are exceptional quality.

If you turn on Image Edting on your info people can show you crop suggestions of your pics, since you don't have it on this is what I would suggest...because though I don't mind the nice lookin fan on the right hand side that distracts from that Astros fan pickin his nose and yawning, others might. Get closer tot he kid if at all possible and if you want full body you need to shoot the kid in the center in the first place...

example of a closer crop to get rid of background (pink shirts EVERYWHERE), not the greatest of shots but it was sittin on my desktop from the game the other day...


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CanonXtiDude
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May 11, 2008 16:51 |  #8

If 15$ is low for a print what is suggested?




  
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MJPhotos24
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May 11, 2008 17:04 |  #9

Find out about your market, before I got into the youth market I got 5 or 6 of the other companies price sheets to compare and come up with my pricing. Turned out to be not the cheapest but not the most expensive either, it was probably in the middle but leaning towards cheaper. For example my $14 package is $64 for the most expensive (and not surprisingly he's gone out of business not selling much of anything) and $12 for the cheapest and $22 for the guy just above me.


Freelance Photographer & Co-founder of Four Seam Images
Mike Janes Photography (external link) - Four Seam Images LLC (external link)
FSI is a baseball oriented photo agency and official licensee of MiLB/MLB.
@FourSeamImages (instagram/twitter)
@MikeJanesPhotography (instagram)
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TiKTaC
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May 12, 2008 16:48 as a reply to  @ MJPhotos24's post |  #10

I do $3.00 for 4x6, $5.00/5x7 & $10.00 8x10. I offer the Download for $10.00 but yet have sold any that way.


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cstewart
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May 12, 2008 18:10 |  #11

To answer a few questions I saw in the posts:

RAW for Sports: Yes I shoot RAW for Sports, especially hockey as it allows me way more flexibility to post process lousy lighting conditions. I have just started shooting some baseball and used RAW there too for the same reasons, although depending on lighting, I suspect I could get away with JPEG if needed.

Pricing: I charge parents on my hockey teams $10 for an 8.5 x 11 sheet. This pretty much covers ink and paper to print. Parents can get one 8 x 10 or 2 5 x 7s on a sheet. This seems to be a good price point and many have said my prices are too cheap so I don't think $15 is too high for an 8 x 10.

Printing: I prefer to offer prints as opposed to digital files. In addition to what MJ describes above regarding shoddy parent printing jobs that make us look bad, there is the issue of retaining control over the image. I really don't want to do a digital license agreement for each image or group of images I give them.

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tim1960
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May 13, 2008 07:15 |  #12

CanonXtiDude - I'm not a fan of the 5X7 crop you have shown and asked if it is good. The batter is too far to the left side showing to many parents in the right of the shot. However, if there had been a baseball coming in on the right side of the shot, it would be a very good picture. Or even had he been swinging at a ball. You know what I mean here?

I shoot HS Basebal and it can be tough at times being in the right place at the right time. My advice is to shoot tighter and try to get more action instead of just a player. The action shots sell.


T. Gray:)

  
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Gottria
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May 13, 2008 08:54 |  #13

Dang, you guys are pricey:) I charge $1.45 for 4x6, $4.25 for a 5x7, and $10.00 for an 8x10. I offered the 4x6 cheap just to make some sales and getting my name spread around the league. So far I have the other teams requesting me to shoot their games. This is my first year taking it seriously and had about 15 sales so far. Not to bad for a regular season shots.


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TiKTaC
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May 13, 2008 09:01 |  #14

Gottria wrote in post #5514848 (external link)
Dang, you guys are pricey:) I charge $1.45 for 4x6, $4.25 for a 5x7, and $10.00 for an 8x10. I offered the 4x6 cheap just to make some sales and getting my name spread around the league. So far I have the other teams requesting me to shoot their games. This is my first year taking it seriously and had about 15 sales so far. Not to bad for a regular season shots.

I did the same thing to get my name out there. But it didn't take me long to realize that everybody liked them and they would pay $3.00 for a 4x6. Coming from a parent of a little leauge player. If the pictures are good quality and you capture shots that they can not get from there point and shoot they will buy.


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dmwierz
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May 13, 2008 09:20 |  #15

Gottria wrote in post #5514848 (external link)
Dang, you guys are pricey:) I charge $1.45 for 4x6, $4.25 for a 5x7, and $10.00 for an 8x10. I offered the 4x6 cheap just to make some sales and getting my name spread around the league. So far I have the other teams requesting me to shoot their games. This is my first year taking it seriously and had about 15 sales so far. Not to bad for a regular season shots.

and:

I do $3.00 for 4x6, $5.00/5x7 & $10.00 8x10. I offer the Download for $10.00 but yet have sold any that way.

Folks - These prices are WAY too low. The going price for a pro-shot 4x6 around here is $6 -$8, and one guy I shoot for gets $10, and this is still a great deal. A 5x7 goes for somewhere around $10-$12 and an 8x10 for around $20. BTW, we sell almost 50% of everything that's shot. We print out all the shots on spec in 4x6 books (cost $0.18 per print) and set up a tent during game weekends, and parents just eat 'em up.

If you want to be taken seriously (you say this is your first year "taking it seriously"), charge seriously for your work. If you think the prices I quoted are too high, maybe you should reconsider if your work is good enough to be sold at all. If you want to be seen as a pro, charge like a pro.

If you have the goods and your quality is excellent (by the way, I second everything Mike said regarding the images themselves - they need some work - I'm not sure I read this, though: watch your horizons - several of the batter shots are obviously slanted from horizontal - notice the backstop posts not being vertical) don't be afraid to charge for your work, and charge a fair but serious price.

Pat, digital files are very common. Yeah, you run into the "control" issue, but you honestly run into this with any image. They can be scanned and then printed out. Control is more of an illusion in these days of cheap scanners, etc..

For example, for youth or HS football, a CD of a game normally commands a price of from $200-$400 depending on the size of the team. The teams usually pool their money, and each player/family gets 10-20 "magazine quality" edited files of themselves to use as they see fit, anywhere and any time, as often as they'd like. Baseball and softball prices are in the same range, but correspondingly lower since the teams tend to be smaller. Unedited CD's are lower in price.


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