Approve the Cookies
This website uses cookies to improve your user experience. By using this site, you agree to our use of cookies and our Privacy Policy.
OK
Index  •   • New posts  •   • RTAT  •   • 'Best of'  •   • Gallery  •   • Gear  •   • Reviews
Guest
New posts  •   • RTAT  •   • 'Best of'  •   • Gallery  •   • Gear  •   • Reviews
Register to forums    Log in

 
FORUMS Canon Cameras, Lenses & Accessories Canon EOS Digital Cameras 
Thread started 11 May 2008 (Sunday) 01:02
Search threadPrev/next
sponsored links
(this ad will go away when you log in as a registered member)

Mirror lockup or timer on a tripod?

 
mrkgoo
Goldmember
2,289 posts
Joined Aug 2006
     
May 11, 2008 01:02 |  #1

I know mirror lockup is useful to prevent vibrations caused by the mirror when on a tripod, but I don't think I've ever seen this effect anyway. I tend to get more vibrations from releasing the shutter, so I normally use timer mode set to about two seconds (40D). IS this a valid thing to do? What do people normally use when on a tripod?




  
  LOG IN TO REPLY
sponsored links
(this ad will go away when you log in as a registered member)
qwibbled
Member
172 posts
Joined May 2008
     
May 11, 2008 01:05 |  #2

mirror lock up and timer, or mlu and remote cable release or wireless




  
  LOG IN TO REPLY
mrkgoo
THREAD ­ STARTER
Goldmember
2,289 posts
Joined Aug 2006
     
May 11, 2008 01:08 |  #3

qwibbled wrote in post #5500818 (external link)
mirror lock up and timer, or mlu and remote cable release or wireless

Haha, I'm stupid.

The reason I asked is because I always thought you couldn't do both - that is, have MLU AND timer release. But when you said, I went and tried it, and the mirror does indeed lockup, with the shutter releasing a few seconds later.

I guess that disregards my comment then.

I used to have a remote release- well, actually I still do, but it doesn't work on my 40D.




  
  LOG IN TO REPLY
tzalman
Fatal attraction.
Avatar
13,477 posts
Likes: 197
Joined Apr 2005
Location: Gesher Haziv, Israel
     
May 11, 2008 05:08 |  #4

Since you have a 40D the easiest and fastest way to get mirror lockup is to simply use Live View. This has the advantage of retaining visual contact with the subject and, of course. you can also use either timer or even continuous drive (mirror stays up between shots).


Elie / אלי

  
  LOG IN TO REPLY
watchtherocks
Senior Member
Avatar
579 posts
Joined Mar 2008
Location: Australia
     
May 11, 2008 05:52 |  #5

For the win, MLU, timer AND remote release.
Sharpness, here I come!


Anyone know anything anywhere anymore?

  
  LOG IN TO REPLY
Wilt
Reader's Digest Condensed version of War and Peace [POTN Vol 1]
Avatar
41,872 posts
Gallery: 1 photo
Likes: 2603
Joined Aug 2005
Location: Belmont, CA
     
May 11, 2008 19:04 |  #6

Mirror vibration is more of a factor for exposures of about 1/4 - 2 sec., per tests done a couple of decades ago. At shutter speeds faster than 1/4, and at exposure times over a few seconds long, the exposure is less affected by exposure portions which occur during mirror vibration prone contribution.


You need to give me OK to edit your image and repost! Keep POTN alive and well with member support https://photography-on-the.net/forum/donate.p​hp
Canon dSLR system, Olympus OM 35mm system, Bronica ETRSi 645 system, Horseman LS 4x5 system, Metz flashes, Dynalite studio lighting, and too many accessories to mention

  
  LOG IN TO REPLY
Gart
Senior Member
Avatar
462 posts
Gallery: 10 photos
Likes: 143
Joined Sep 2007
Location: D/FW metro
     
May 11, 2008 20:15 |  #7

watchtherocks wrote in post #5501487 (external link)
For the win, MLU, timer AND remote release.
Sharpness, here I come!

+1. Whenever I am using a tripod, I use this.




  
  LOG IN TO REPLY
Bill ­ Boehme
Enjoy being spanked
Avatar
7,359 posts
Gallery: 38 photos
Best ofs: 1
Likes: 88
Joined Jan 2007
Location: DFW Metro-mess, Texas
     
May 11, 2008 22:15 |  #8

Wilt wrote in post #5504533 (external link)
Mirror vibration is more of a factor for exposures of about 1/4 - 2 sec., per tests done a couple of decades ago. At shutter speeds faster than 1/4, and at exposure times over a few seconds long, the exposure is less affected by exposure portions which occur during mirror vibration prone contribution.

The design of digital SLR cameras is considerably different from film SLR cameras (things like mirror mass and spring constant), so I think the old test results (who did the tests?) are not necessarily applicable. My experience with astrophotography is that mirror induced vibration is significant at all of the shutter speeds that I have used. For example, I have noticed on moon shots that mirror vibration affects image quality at a shutter speed of 1/400 second and a focal length of 400 mm.


Atmospheric haze in images? Click for Tutorial to Reduce Atmospheric Haze with Photoshop.
Gear List .... Gallery: Woodturner Bill (external link)
Donate to Support POTN Operating Costs

  
  LOG IN TO REPLY
Wilt
Reader's Digest Condensed version of War and Peace [POTN Vol 1]
Avatar
41,872 posts
Gallery: 1 photo
Likes: 2603
Joined Aug 2005
Location: Belmont, CA
     
May 12, 2008 10:05 |  #9

bill boehme wrote in post #5505529 (external link)
The design of digital SLR cameras is considerably different from film SLR cameras (things like mirror mass and spring constant), so I think the old test results (who did the tests?) are not necessarily applicable. My experience with astrophotography is that mirror induced vibration is significant at all of the shutter speeds that I have used. For example, I have noticed on moon shots that mirror vibration affects image quality at a shutter speed of 1/400 second and a focal length of 400 mm.

Bill, the original test was conducted by a magazine, I think by now-deceased Herb Keppler of Modern Photography reknown. And yes, the SLRs of the times had horizontal travel cloth focal plane shutters. The modern dSLR uses vertical travel metal focal plane shutters, so their motion is along the same plane as the vertical motion and stoppage of the mirror rise and could be much more deleterious to shake free photos.

It appears your own experiences indicate problems even at reasonably quick shutter speed! Have you attempted to characterize the motion direction as predominantly along the short direction of the frame (vertical motion of mirror, vertical motion of shutter) or if it is in other directions as well? What tripod and what head are involved in your observations (before we jump to a conclusion about mirror slap and shutter as the guilty parties without contributing neglicence by other accessory items, too!) ?


You need to give me OK to edit your image and repost! Keep POTN alive and well with member support https://photography-on-the.net/forum/donate.p​hp
Canon dSLR system, Olympus OM 35mm system, Bronica ETRSi 645 system, Horseman LS 4x5 system, Metz flashes, Dynalite studio lighting, and too many accessories to mention

  
  LOG IN TO REPLY
apersson850
Cream of the Crop
Avatar
12,104 posts
Gallery: 7 photos
Likes: 332
Joined Nov 2007
Location: Traryd, Sweden
     
May 12, 2008 10:14 as a reply to  @ Wilt's post |  #10

At least to me, it also seems reasonable to assume that the smaller mirrors in all but the full frame digital cameras will give different vibration, compared to in the old cameras. Motor controlled mirrors (the EOS 40D has motor up-motor down, compared to spring/motor in older models) are also likely to make the characteristic of the vibration different.

Then a long lens, like a 400 mm telephoto, will magnify everything, vibrations included.

The mirror vibration tests have been repeated by many. I've read about them in Swedish photo magazines as well, many years ago.


Anders

  
  LOG IN TO REPLY
Bill ­ Boehme
Enjoy being spanked
Avatar
7,359 posts
Gallery: 38 photos
Best ofs: 1
Likes: 88
Joined Jan 2007
Location: DFW Metro-mess, Texas
     
May 12, 2008 12:46 |  #11

Wilt wrote in post #5508038 (external link)
...... It appears your own experiences indicate problems even at reasonably quick shutter speed!

Of course, it is very slight and wouldn't even be notices in a lot of things. but in a few special situations mostly involving a long telephoto, it does make a difference.

Wilt wrote in post #5508038 (external link)
...... Have you attempted to characterize the motion direction as predominantly along the short direction of the frame (vertical motion of mirror, vertical motion of shutter) or if it is in other directions as well?

This is a different animal than camera shake where you can see the direction of motion. I think that because of the mirror location WRT to the sensor and the complexity of paths that the vibrations can travel through before reaching the sensor that there is no consistently predominant direction of blur. My recollection about the motion is that it mostly made the image seem slightly OOF. I suspect that it probably produced some oval shaped patterns. I also would not be surprised if most of the vibration is along the optical axis which would mean that the image REALLY DOES go in and out of focus by a very tiny amount.

Wilt wrote in post #5508038 (external link)
...... What tripod and what head are involved in your observations (before we jump to a conclusion about mirror slap and shutter as the guilty parties without contributing neglicence by other accessory items, too!) ?

The head is a Wimberly which is, by far, the best one that I have tried as far a solidness is concerned. The tripod is an Induro A413. I use a ground anchor and connect the center post of the tripod to it with a bungee cord. This puts around 30 pounds of downward force on the tripod to help stiffen it from vibration.

apersson850 wrote in post #5508101 (external link)
...... Then a long lens, like a 400 mm telephoto, will magnify everything, vibrations included.....

That is absolutely true. Locking the mirror would not be necessary for types of photography.


Atmospheric haze in images? Click for Tutorial to Reduce Atmospheric Haze with Photoshop.
Gear List .... Gallery: Woodturner Bill (external link)
Donate to Support POTN Operating Costs

  
  LOG IN TO REPLY
tzalman
Fatal attraction.
Avatar
13,477 posts
Likes: 197
Joined Apr 2005
Location: Gesher Haziv, Israel
     
May 12, 2008 17:29 |  #12

If we are including shutter caused vibration in this discussion, it might be of interest to note that in Live View the 40D (as opposed to the 1D3) uses an electronic first curtain that scans across the image at the same speed a mechanical first curtain would physically cross the frame, followed by a mechanical second curtain. It would seem logical to assume this reduces shutter induced vibration (it certainly softens the sound).


Elie / אלי

  
  LOG IN TO REPLY
sponsored links
(this ad will go away when you log in as a registered member)

1,710 views & 0 likes for this thread
Mirror lockup or timer on a tripod?
FORUMS Canon Cameras, Lenses & Accessories Canon EOS Digital Cameras 
AAA
x 1600
y 1600

Jump to forum...   •  Rules   •  Index   •  New posts   •  RTAT   •  'Best of'   •  Gallery   •  Gear   •  Reviews   •  Member list   •  Polls   •  Image rules   •  Search   •  Password reset

Not a member yet?
Register to forums
Registered members may log in to forums and access all the features: full search, image upload, follow forums, own gear list and ratings, likes, more forums, private messaging, thread follow, notifications, own gallery, all settings, view hosted photos, own reviews, see more and do more... and all is free. Don't be a stranger - register now and start posting!


COOKIES DISCLAIMER: This website uses cookies to improve your user experience. By using this site, you agree to our use of cookies and to our privacy policy.
Privacy policy and cookie usage info.


POWERED BY AMASS forum software 2.1forum software
version 2.1 /
code and design
by Pekka Saarinen ©
for photography-on-the.net

Latest registered member is fitactions
673 guests, 273 members online
Simultaneous users record so far is 15144, that happened on Nov 22, 2018

Photography-on-the.net Digital Photography Forums is the website for photographers and all who love great photos, camera and post processing techniques, gear talk, discussion and sharing. Professionals, hobbyists, newbies and those who don't even own a camera -- all are welcome regardless of skill, favourite brand, gear, gender or age. Registering and usage is free.