soooo another photographer dogged me.

kick his ass, seabass!

lol.... that pic is just wrong, just wrong.

People are smart, they will see through him, he doing more damage to himself than you can do.
Like Stocky said-"I am one of the nicest guys I know, almost to a fault, but when someone makes it clear that they are playing stupid games then I have no problem going after that full force."

i live in buffalo which is pretty small for larger cities... i would say with all the photographers here we all have our nitche and our own creativity... If i have a job come up that i dont think i would be best for i refer them to some one i know would do the best job at it... Honestly we have a group of about 20 photographers that are pretty decent friends. and we all either hang out together, work together, come up with ideas together or just help each other out.. we are all here to make money... but you go pissin down someones back and word gets around and you get a bad rep... your better off all co-existing and getting along... friends are better than enimes esp when you can actually profit from it, and have happy clients... example i have a mamiya digital, one friend needs it for somthing ... fine ... i get 2000 square foot studio to use if i need it... i dropped my 24-70L 2.8 2 days before a wedding... next day nock on my door i had a friend drop off a 24-70.... point is get along share and every one is better off, happier and u will make more money!!!!!

larann78 wrote in post #5522901
I have a family too...what should I have done? Work at McDonalds until he decided to retire so that way I didn't hurt his feelings??? Maybe he should have stepped it up a notch instead of **** about it.

You started after he did, did you work at McDonalds before? The same argument can be used against you.

There are obviously two sides, and I would bet that he has been hearing things about you as well.

If you can't ignore it, try establishing a dialog and talking to him about it. His point of view is very easy to understand, especially if you have been approaching people about business ideas that he has previously worked with.


You certainly have the legal right to start your own photography business, I don't think anyone here would question that, but it may be worth stopping to think about what things he has heard about you, or what you have been saying about him. Not what you are telling us, but think about what is filtering down to him.

Stocky wrote in post #5523784
This might even include talking to him at some point about how to split the local market.

You do realize how illegal and immoral this is, right?

I have a good friend who owns and runs a chain of music stores. The stores teach music lessons and sells: music books, guitars, keyboards, drums, and accessories. There is another store in the town that had been there for a long time. Strangely enough the owner of that store is the husband of a good friend of my mother. When the son of the other store owner took over, he started bad mouthing my friend. My friend took the higher road, he also refused to sell pianos and organs because the other store was known as "The Organ Center". To make a long story short, I knew BOTH sides of the story, my friend was also my guitar teacher, my boss (I worked there teaching guitar for almost 8 years) and the fellow who sung at my wedding. The other shop owner was a family friend as well. In the end, the high road worked - my friend is still in business and the other fellow is out of business.

It's never a fun situation but since:
a) you're already on the high road
b) you're already gaining momentum
c) your competition is clearly being deviant in order to gain business
I truly wouldn't worry about it. Stay on the track that you are on and be as exceedingly nice as you can towards your competitor. Even offer to do joint shoots where your two styles could complement each other. You'll never gain a customer by bad mouthing your competition, all you will get is a reputation that you don't want.

Best of luck!

bieber wrote in post #5525846
You do realize how illegal and immoral this is, right?

What?? How is it immoral or illegal to not shoot weddings and refer thepeople who want it to other people? ( 1 of many examples)

larann78 wrote in post #5522901
I have a family too...what should I have done? Work at McDonalds until he decided to retire so that way I didn't hurt his feelings??? Maybe he should have stepped it up a notch instead of **** about it.

You did nothing wrong by my way of thinking if everything is as your say. If I was in his shoes I wouldn't be liking it either but I wouldn't pulling the sh*t he is.

Continue on as you have, don't jump in the gutter with him and start badmouthing him. People will (and already have) find out what he is all about and they'll be standing in line at your door. This person needs to wake up and revitalize his business if he wants to stay in business.


BTW: Excellent web site. Did you create it?

The problem with this saga is that we are only hearing from you. You feel slighted and probably rightly so. This is business and sometimes it can get very competitive to the point of being ugly and, imo, this is even more true in a small market.

Let your work stand for itself. There is little that you can do about what he says unless of course you can prove slander and then I'm not sure I would want to go there, again particularly in a small market.

I don't see anything wrong with him approaching the school in an attempt to secure that business ongoing. You may not agree with his methods but good business practices would dictate that any business would try to secure ongoing relationships.

If a business has had a lock on a market for an extended period of time they certainly can become complacent. It is sometimes hard for them to change and perhaps that is what he is struggling with.

If you are overly concerned that he is saying bad things about you in the community I would simply invite him to lunch and nice him to death.

Mark1 wrote in post #5526360
What?? How is it immoral or illegal to not shoot weddings and refer thepeople who want it to other people? ( 1 of many examples)

That's not what he was talking about. He was talking about the two of them getting together and purposefully "dividing up the market" between them. If you don't shoot weddings, and I do, and you send people who want weddings my way while I send people looking for sports portraits your way, great. But if we're conflicting, and we get together and decide that you're going to handle all the area sports portraiture and I'm going to get all the weddings, that's illegal collusion, right up there with price fixing.

tracknut wrote in post #5522889
This is a pretty cold statement. I don't know either of you, of course, or whether my interpretation here is correct, but let me add on to that line, what you haven't written: " the only thing I have done to him is to take his business, his livelyhood, his income, food off his table, and potentially damaged his ability to retire comfortably."

Not that what you're doing isn't legal, by any means, but it doesn't seem like you may have an appreciation for what you've done to him, and what effect it may have on him?

Dave

Good thing someone at Canon decided to make a better mousetrap. I believe the elder photographer needs to keep up and not bring someone ill feelings. If I handle my business and listen to the customers, I will probably keep both.

Buy more L lenses then him

As ive heard throughout the forums photography is 80% business and 20% photography. Dont worry if your taking his business and as respect to it being a cold statement....tough...t​hats the way business is you don't think all these millionaires said o im sorry im stepping on your business ill get off and allow you to continue, hell no they stomped on all the small companies and took over to create an empire.

bieber wrote in post #5526573
That's not what he was talking about. He was talking about the two of them getting together and purposefully "dividing up the market" between them. If you don't shoot weddings, and I do, and you send people who want weddings my way while I send people looking for sports portraits your way, great. But if we're conflicting, and we get together and decide that you're going to handle all the area sports portraiture and I'm going to get all the weddings, that's illegal collusion, right up there with price fixing.

You are right. I am certainly not a business major, and being that I work in a government sponsored monopoly I guess I don't consider things like that Good catch keeping the OP out of trouble.