Shooting in poorly lit areas...

This thread is really hitting close to home..... I'm getting decent shots (good exposer/no flash) using a 20D at high ISO (3200)(18-55 kit lens, and 75-300 III USM), but the noise is too high for my taste.

Sounds like I need to look into lenses that have a lower "f" like F 1.8, etc....

Could some please explain this whole "F" thing to me? It sounds like the lower the number, the bigger the aperature, and the faster the lens. Higher means smaller and slower. What do you mean by faster? Faster at what? Why is a larger aperature better?

I know, sooooo many questions from such a novice.... Perhaps someone could point me to a good reference that explains this.

Thanks a bunch,

TMR

I am discovering this info. out as well novice trying to shoot pro shots, here is a link to a good read on Apeture (F - stops). http://www.photoxels.c​om/tutorial_aperture.h​tml

The really high end Canon (grey/beige) lenses have this low F-stop on telephoto lenses. But I am finding that in a gym my 75-300mm is really to much lens. An affordable lens with that low of an F-stop seems appealling if it will get the results I am looking for (shooting sports in low-light gyms).


P.S.: The photographers I have talked to on the sidelines say they never shoot higher than 1600 because of to much noise.

Guys, I recommend doing a short photography course if you can find one near you. I just did an 8 week beginners digital photography course myself, and it was a great introduction to photography. Once you know the basics you can start to experiment and get experience. Basics like aperture are really simple... once someone explains them

If you can't find a course, a book would do too.

Until you understand this stuff, I really recommend holding off buying anything, lenses or flashes. With the advice you'd get here you'll probably end up with good stuff, but IMHO it's better to understand it and make an informed choice yourself.

Every basic photography class covers the basics of the camera on Day One. I recommend you find a basic class at your local community college or adult education center.

Lenses have an aperture (opening) where the light comes through it. Lenses with really big apertures let more light through, so they are more sensitive and can be used more in dim light. Big apertures mean low f-numbers. Lenses with small apertures don't let as much light through, but they are still useful in a general purpose way. Small apertures mean high f-numbers. As a general rule (with exceptions) the lower the f-number, the bigger the hunk of glass that it takes to produce it, and the more expensive and heavy the lens is.

The basic exposure is set up by the combination of ISO speed setting (sensitivity at the sensor), shutter speed (fractions of a second that the shutter is open), and lens aperture. If you are lucky enough to have a really big aperture lens (low f-number) then that allows you to shoot at quicker shutter speeds for a given ISO. So, in a way, the big aperture lens allows you to shoot faster, which is why the lens is called a fast lens, even though the lens itself doesn't really do anything about time.

---Bob Gross---

The best way to visualize aperture is think of light has paint (or water). The bigger the hole, the faster the same amount of paint will flow through. Now you probably ask why wouldn't you always shoot wide open....well, when that much paint comes in, most of it would be messy or doesn't have time to render all of the picture I guess. This is where Depth of Field (DOF) comes in. When opening up the hole to let in allot of light, the DOF becomes very shallow. (wait until you take a look at a DOF calculator, interesting stuff)

I agree, the first thing you should do is learn the exposure triangle (Shutter Speed, Aperture, and ISO). Because even if you get the flash, you will probably find your self in manual mode when you start not getting the photos the way you want, I know I did. Auto is ok, but manual gives you allot of control and better photos.

so on the Canon 50mm F1.8 it can only stay on 50 mm no farther or closer, Im starting to think aout getting me one of those lens. Thanks for everyone's help. I was about to go out and get me a new flash. Oh and about the flash bothering the players, nah. I talked to them after the game and they said they didn't even notice the flash going off.

Easy way is to put camera to M or Av mode and change aperture - it does not go lower or higher than the lens allows.

The text on the lens ring:

1:1.8 means f/1.8
1: 2.8 means f/2.8
1: 2.8-3.5 means you get max. 2.8 on wide and max. 3.5 zoomed in.

Don't take this as gospel, and if I am way off base...please someone more knowlegable feel free to correct me. I am new to advanced photography so I may be wrong.

From what I have read...red eye has a great deal to do with the proximity of the flash to the lens (i.e: on camera flashes (stock flashes) will produce more red eye that a flash connected to the camera with the hot shoe...especially if you aim so the light is ambient to the subject eg: not pointed straight at them).

Am I right in my thinking, or did I misread the information on this subject.

If you are an independant learner you could also just invest in a good in depth detailed photography text. This is what I did.....now granted, its a bigger learner curve than having someone show you in person, but I personally find it very rewarding to "self-teach" especially when it comes to something like this.

Medic, care to share the titles of some of those reads that you have found helpful? I tend to agree with you. I had a friend that has attended a few of those classes that taught only what he already knew. I am searching forums, sites, and asking other photographers for expanding my knowledge of photography. I have learned alot in the last few months. I have gone from shooting my son's games over the last several years to selling photos to other parents. I upgraded to a faster and more upgradeable camera (the digital Rebel). No regrets. I just want to add to my bag the necessities that will bring me quality photos. I was about to buy the speed flash (550/EX) until coming across this post.

Drisley, you really caught my attention with your comments and pics. The indoor gym shooting is what I am doing now.
qoute
"For a little more length, and a little more money, get the 85F1.8. "

What lens are you talking about please? Is it the Canon that is http://www.bhphotovide​o.com/bnh/con...ku=121​82&is=USA here?
Canon Telephoto EF 85mm f/1.8 USM Autofocus Lens
Mfr # 2519A003

One more question: How much does the shutter speed affect the photo. Let me explain my question: I am shooting in the gym with the Tamron 75-300mm, Drebel, AV mode, 1600 ISO, 4.0 Apeture.

I notice that the shutter speed changes constantly, which it is supposed to whn in AV mode. But what I am wondering, is would I be better off shooting full manual mode and controlling my shutter speed? Or is it better to let the camera decide my shutter speed in these low-light sittuations.

As others have said; I get great results outside in the daylight. I am trying to find out what is my best course of action concerning shooting in the low light areas.

1. Buy a flash?
2. Buy a lens with a low F-stop?
3. Shoot with controled shutter speed?
4. Put my camera back in the bag at night.
5. Take up a new hobby, like skeet shooting.

triangle wrote:
One more question: How much does the shutter speed affect the photo. Let me explain my question: I am shooting in the gym with the Tamron 75-300mm, Drebel, AV mode, 1600 ISO, 4.0 Apeture.

I notice that the shutter speed changes constantly, which it is supposed to whn in AV mode. But what I am wondering, is would I be better off shooting full manual mode and controlling my shutter speed? Or is it better to let the camera decide my shutter speed in these low-light sittuations.

As others have said; I get great results outside in the daylight. I am trying to find out what is my best course of action concerning shooting in the low light areas.

1. Buy a flash?
2. Buy a lens with a low F-stop?
3. Shoot with controled shutter speed?
4. Put my camera back in the bag at night.
5. Take up a new hobby, like skeet shooting.

If you don't understand why the shutter speed is constantly changing you definitely shouldn't shoot in manual mode for anything you want deecnt photos of. Play with it in your own time, and watch the histogram, you might learn something.

Low light shooting's hard, especially if it's of moving objects. You need a certain amount of light to be able to take a photo. The first thing to do is get a lens with a wide aperture and try that. If that doesn't work your only other choice is to use an external light source, like a flash. Of course crank your ISO way up before you try flash.

I would say that is fairly accurate. It is possible to get red eye with the flash off camera, but it is very unlikely. The other eye problem has to do with winking. Some subjects have a natural tendency to wink quickly or often. When your camera gets ready to do a flash shot, there is a pre-flash, then a small fraction of a second pause, and then the main flash goes. In some cases, the subject's eyes react to the pre-flash, and the eyes are either half-winked or fully closed by the time the main flash goes. I'm not sure what you can do to beat that one.

---Bob Gross---

Triangle, yes, that is the lens. There is only one Canon 85mm F1.8 lens.
It's a gem of a lens with optics on par with Canon's best, superbly fast USM auto-focus, full-time manual focus, and it's a bargain at $340.
Many pros who shoot from the court use this lens.

Another tip for shooting in poorly lit conditions - bump up the ISO and expose to the right. Correctly exposed picture at ISO 1600 will have less visible noise than an underexposed one at ISO 800. Furthermore the noise can be dealt with by using a noise removal software as Noise ninja, Neatimage or such (there are even freeware noise removal solutions.). If you're shooting RAW, which you should do in any difficult lighting conditions due to the flexibility it gives you later on in post-processing, locate the noise-removal option in the RAW converter and turn it on. Some converters are VERY good at removing the noise.

In short - use fast lenses at large apertures, bump up the ISO, expose to the right (but make sure not to overexpose), keep the shutter speeds at 1/250s or above, shoot RAW and use noise-removal software.