Outdoor portraiture lighting suggestions

I want advice on setting up a starter outdoor lighting kit for portraitures. Here are my criteria:

1. I want to shoot headshots, bust size and full length.
   
2. I will be shooting only one person.
   
3. I am looking for continuous, diffused light and stand that can be used with an umbrella (since that diffuses and spreads the light the farthest compared to the other diffusing option - a softbox).
   
4. The light source should have adjustable power for different times of the day.
   
5. I will also be using an on camera speed lite for fill lighting (most probably a 420 ex)
   
6. I also need suggestions on a battery pack to power the light source.
   
7. I am looking for best value for the money options, so not necessarily the cheapest.

Hi SB,

Others can help you assembling the kit but #3 is not going to be possible. If you're shooting outdoors you're going to want strobes that can produce enough light to make a difference. Continuous lights won't cut it.

Robert is right. To effectively compete with the sun and provide a large apparent light source and illuminate an entire full-grown human, you would need several thousand watts of continuous light. This thread might clue you in.

You can effectively do half-length portraits outdoors with a couple good flash units and an umbrella. Even something as cheap as a Sunpak 383 would work. A couple 580EX II would give you finer control and faster recycling.

Anything more would require a studio strobe and a battery/inverter unit or perhaps a powerful battery-powered strobe like Lumidynes.

On-camera flash can be effective as fill at moderate distances as long as you're shooting it directly at your subject. An umbrella or other modifier would destroy its efficiency and make a single flash unit relatively useless at distances beyond 5 feet or so (on a sunny day).

Beyond this, I would point out that outdoor lighting doesn't need to be complicated. You can orient your subject so the sun it behind her for a nice hair/rim light, and use your flash/strobe as the main light. Sometimes a reflector held by an assistant is easier, quicker and more effective. This allows you to see what you're getting. On a cloudy day, a flash w/ umbrella can be used as main, the ambient can be your fill, and another flash behind the subject off to one side can be a nice rim light (used direct). Not every light source needs to be big and soft.

There are a million ways to use the natural light as a soft, directional light source if you use shade from a building or tree so that it's coming mostly from one side. Creative and pleasing outdoor portraits mostly require skillful use of the existing light, rather than a ton of gear.

TMR,
Thanks for your input. So your saying continuous lights just don't have the amount of power to disperse light for portraitures.
I actually had this setup in mind. It looks like ferio-moreno is using flood lights, if I am not mistaken. Would this work for what I need?
The reason I am not leaning towards strobes is I want to know ahead of taking a shot where the light and shadows fall and as I understand strobes only fire when a shot is taken.

shutter_blitz wrote in post #5575428
TMR,
Thanks for your input. So your saying continuous lights just don't have the amount of power to disperse light for portraitures.
I actually had this setup in mind. It looks like ferio-moreno is using flood lights, if I am not mistaken. Would this work for what I need?
The reason I am not leaning towards strobes is I want to know ahead of taking a shot where the light and shadows fall and as I understand strobes only fire when a shot is taken.

No, what Robert is saying is that continuous lights don't have the power to compete with the sun outdoors. When shooting outdoors you need a lightsource that is powerful enough to fill in those shadows, after you've adjusted exposure for the sun. The link you're referencing, for one thing, are mostly shot at or near dusk where the sun isn't as bright. I'm also not sure, but those lights could be strobes with modeling lights on.

"Robert is right. To effectively compete with the sun and provide a large apparent light source and illuminate an entire full-grown human, you would need several thousand watts of continuous light."

Curtis,
Wouldn't this depend on the distance of the light source from the subject?

I am also trying to understand why my light source would have to compete with the sun, since the sun would be the main source of light, my light source will only be adding or taking away contrast where necessary.

thx.

shutter_blitz wrote in post #5575428
TMR,
Thanks for your input. So your saying continuous lights just don't have the amount of power to disperse light for portraitures.
I actually had this setup in mind. It looks like ferio-moreno is using flood lights, if I am not mistaken. Would this work for what I need?
The reason I am not leaning towards strobes is I want to know ahead of taking a shot where the light and shadows fall and as I understand strobes only fire when a shot is taken.

Hi SB,

As Curtis said, you need HUGE amounts of wattage to even approach the output of a strobe of reasonable power. It's not cost effective or practical.

The images you point to were done with strobes and the shot you're referring to that looks like flood lights is a shot with the strobes firing, so you're seeing the strobes popping to capture the image.

Strobes fire when you're metering or when you're shooting. The capacitors are charged and that charge is then released, producing a burst of incredible amounts of light.

Over time, with lots of practice, you'll learn how to 'model' the face or a shot without modeling lights or a continuous light, but again, it's just not practical to have a continuous light for modeling and shooting. Lights that could produce that quantity of light will be large, heavy, and incredibly hot.. both the fixtures themselves and the subject's in front of them.

dragulaz wrote in post #5575493
No, what Robert is saying is that continuous lights don't have the power to compete with the sun outdoors. When shooting outdoors you need a lightsource that is powerful enough to fill in those shadows, after you've adjusted exposure for the sun. The link you're referencing, for one thing, are mostly shot at or near dusk where the sun isn't as bright. I'm also not sure, but those lights could be strobes with modeling lights on.

I guess that answers my questions to Curtis. thx

shutter_blitz wrote in post #5575503
"Robert is right. To effectively compete with the sun and provide a large apparent light source and illuminate an entire full-grown human, you would need several thousand watts of continuous light."

I am also trying to understand why my light source would have to compete with the sun, since the sun would be the main source of light, my light source will only be adding or taking away contrast where necessary.

Even using a continuous source as fill is asking a bit much. If the sun is your main light then your best bet for a fill source is a reflector or flexible plexiglass mirror to kick some light from the sun back at the subject where needed. If that light is too specular or had too much contrast then you could place a diffusion panel of some sort in between the reflector and subject.

Ok, so I can't use continuous lights. Going off of Curtis's suggestion of using studio strobe with a battery unit, what's the best pick?

I was afraid this would be off topic, but now I can ask. Robert, you using the Vagabond II now? I see it in your sig. How's that working out with the D-Lite 2's?

dragulaz wrote in post #5575643
I was afraid this would be off topic, but now I can ask. Robert, you using the Vagabond II now? I see it in your sig. How's that working out with the D-Lite 2's?

Very nicely

https://photography-on-the.net/forum/showthre​ad.php?t=507221

Much appreciated

Curtis N wrote in post #5575349
Robert is right. To effectively compete with the sun and provide a large apparent light source and illuminate an entire full-grown human, you would need several thousand watts of continuous light. This thread might clue you in.

You can effectively do half-length portraits outdoors with a couple good flash units and an umbrella. Even something as cheap as a Sunpak 383 would work. A couple 580EX II would give you finer control and faster recycling.

Anything more would require a studio strobe and a battery/inverter unit or perhaps a powerful battery-powered strobe like Lumidynes.

On-camera flash can be effective as fill at moderate distances as long as you're shooting it directly at your subject. An umbrella or other modifier would destroy its efficiency and make a single flash unit relatively useless at distances beyond 5 feet or so (on a sunny day).

Beyond this, I would point out that outdoor lighting doesn't need to be complicated. You can orient your subject so the sun it behind her for a nice hair/rim light, and use your flash/strobe as the main light. Sometimes a reflector held by an assistant is easier, quicker and more effective. This allows you to see what you're getting. On a cloudy day, a flash w/ umbrella can be used as main, the ambient can be your fill, and another flash behind the subject off to one side can be a nice rim light (used direct). Not every light source needs to be big and soft.

There are a million ways to use the natural light as a soft, directional light source if you use shade from a building or tree so that it's coming mostly from one side. Creative and pleasing outdoor portraits mostly require skillful use of the existing light, rather than a ton of gear.

Curtis, any books that you can recommend on working with available outdoor lighting? Thanks