Am I charging too much, or too little?

Giving away prints seems like a good idea, but by giving things away you're telling people "these have no value". At my prices that's about $300 worth of prints you've given away. Another idea might've been to give them a voucher for a free family portrait sitting, "regular price (whatever)", which would generate revenue and business rather than cost you time and money.

Be careful with the "regular price $X" thing, it can get you in trouble if it's not true and if it's not the regular advertised price. If you always do specials or free offers you can't put this on the voucher.

These types of things you learn at photography sales and business type seminars. Every seminar i've been to has made money for me.

tim wrote in post #5668515
Giving away prints seems like a good idea, but by giving things away you're telling people "these have no value". At my prices that's about $300 worth of prints you've given away. Another idea might've been to give them a voucher for a free family portrait sitting, "regular price (whatever)", which would generate revenue and business rather than cost you time and money.

Be careful with the "regular price $X" thing, it can get you in trouble if it's not true and if it's not the regular advertised price. If you always do specials or free offers you can't put this on the voucher.

These types of things you learn at photography sales and business type seminars. Every seminar i've been to has made money for me.

I strongly disagree the photo i gave away have no value, i listed the price value of the bonus in my thank you letters.

<devils advocate>

I'm not saying it has no value, just that giving a lot of product away that's usually expensive indicates that you give it no value. Of course customers know prints don't cost that much, and that they're paying for our time, skill, and experience, so we're devaluing our own time. Of course the promotion aspect is worth considering, but are they telling their friends you're good or that you're cheap and give away free stuff?

Again, I have to disagree with you that I gave the expensive big prints no value or cheap, it's quite the opposite actually, it indicates that I appreciated their business, it indicates that I went the extra mile to make them happy, and it indicates that they are being rewarded for placing big order from me. I'm going to add 16x20 and 20x30 print size to the new price structure next time around, and these big prints ain't going to be cheap by any mean.

sure...my current price list may be cheaper than some wedding photographer, but it is certainly more expensive than any other studios that the school ever had. I only gave one 16x20 to this client with $363 order, hell...if she were to order $700 worth of prints I would of throw in an additional 20x30 on top of the 16x20 for free! That should encourage them to buy more, the more they buy the more profit in my pocket and the bigger the bonus they will get in return, it's a win win situation in my book. Everybody has a different business approach and prefer to do things differently. Unparalleled customer satisfaction and high quality standards are integral part of my mission, the feedback i got back from the school and from parents so far indicates that I'm heading to the right direction, and the school wanting to hire me to do the other 4 schools in the network also indicates that I did something right

(still devils advocate) Would giving free large prints encourage people to buy more, or let them know they don't need to buy them beacuse you'll give them to them for free?

16x20 is not that large, but the wow factor is large enough to grab their attention, in the long run it should encourage people to order this size, assuming the client is not hiding the photo in the closet instead of hanging it on their wall. Now that they (or their friends and relatives) have seen the quality of large print, it should give them confidence to order something similar or larger in the future. At the end, these free prints should practically sold themselves (bring me more referrals). It's all calculated in my business plan, and the rule is not written in stone either, plus i'm also looking at it from a customer perspective as well. Setting myself apart from the competitors is another factor in the equation, once my client base has expanded beyond my capability to supply the demand, then it will be time to stop the bonus and restructure my pricing again. As I'm sure you already know...some clients are more than willing to pay a premium for a reputable photographer just to get a shot.

I make a decent living from my day job as a Senior System Engineer, the extra income I get from the photography business is just that...an extra income, I ain't going to lose sleep over it regardless of the outcome.

Ah, the weekend warrior, it's much easier to do things cheap or free when you don't need to make a living out of it.

tim wrote in post #5671022
Ah, the weekend warrior, it's much easier to do things cheap or free when you don't need to make a living out of it.

Obviously you know absolutely nothing about investment, I'm sure being pessimistic and lack of vision is helpful in establishing a business

tim wrote in post #5671022
Ah, the weekend warrior, it's much easier to do things cheap or free when you don't need to make a living out of it.

I think that's totally uncalled for. And, in the future, don't claim to just be playing "devils advocate" when it's clear that you have an agenda and know where you were going with it.

I guess you were never a part-time photographer?

What difference is what he's doing as compared to our shoot at our son's graduation when we typically aren't shooting during the week?

Further, if I recall, he posted that he charged MORE than the last guy (pro) who did it?

If you look at his pricing, it is inline or higher than most "school photography" companies. He is also MUCH MUCH more flexible in packages and one-off prints. I think later on if he starts doing more of this, he'll stop being quite as flexible.. but for now, the flexibility got him a boatload of sales!

I think giving that bit extra is a GREAT idea. Just giving a free print may not pay off as well as he thought it will.. BUT for $10-15 out of his pocket it can't hurt.

Could he have done something else to possibly build business? Yep, it was posted earlier, give a free family portrait session or something like that... but that can sometimes backfire as a "gift that requires spending money later on".

I would suggest that in a month or so, he email or call the top 5 or 6 families that spent the most money and say,

"Hi Mrs. _____, I hope you are enjoying the graduation photos of ______, and also I hope you were able to use the free _(picture size)___ I included! I'm calling to let you know of a special I'm running for the next month, only for my best customers... I'm doing a free sitting for family or children's portraits, and that includes a free 8x10 of your favorite pose. Would you like to get together and take advantage of this offer?"

5 or 6 phone calls could net you a bunch more orders!

I still think giving away high value items devalues them, it's nice to do for people and may get you business, but I just wonder what kind of word of mouth it'll give you - not as good, but as giving away high value items free.

LVPhotos wrote in post #5674086
I think that's totally uncalled for. And, in the future, don't claim to just be playing "devils advocate" when it's clear that you have an agenda and know where you were going with it.

I guess you were never a part-time photographer?

What difference is what he's doing as compared to our shoot at our son's graduation when we typically aren't shooting during the week?

Further, if I recall, he posted that he charged MORE than the last guy (pro) who did it?

If you look at his pricing, it is inline or higher than most "school photography" companies. He is also MUCH MUCH more flexible in packages and one-off prints. I think later on if he starts doing more of this, he'll stop being quite as flexible.. but for now, the flexibility got him a boatload of sales!

I think giving that bit extra is a GREAT idea. Just giving a free print may not pay off as well as he thought it will.. BUT for $10-15 out of his pocket it can't hurt.

Could he have done something else to possibly build business? Yep, it was posted earlier, give a free family portrait session or something like that... but that can sometimes backfire as a "gift that requires spending money later on".

I would suggest that in a month or so, he email or call the top 5 or 6 families that spent the most money and say,

"Hi Mrs. _____, I hope you are enjoying the graduation photos of ______, and also I hope you were able to use the free _(picture size)___ I included! I'm calling to let you know of a special I'm running for the next month, only for my best customers... I'm doing a free sitting for family or children's portraits, and that includes a free 8x10 of your favorite pose. Would you like to get together and take advantage of this offer?"

5 or 6 phone calls could net you a bunch more orders!

LVPhotos nailed it

Yes, I charged atleast 10% higher than all the previous photogs they ever had, but in return I'm providing higher quality photographs than the competitors, my turn around time from shooting session to delivery is almost twice as fast, and that even out the play field. Setting unrealistically high price bracket along with limited options to choose from is a sure way to drive down my business in the school segment, I can guaranteed it! Sure, It still seems cheap comparing to wedding photography but it certainly ain't cheap to the parent's eyes. Initially the school thought it was a bit expensive, but to offset the kickback fees I decided to stick with the price I have set. if I were not being flexible to offer individual prints I would have lose a big chunk of my sales. I want to secure my business with the schools for years to come, I want more referrals and the business to grow, I want to be remembered as a photog who is fun to work with, have reasonable pricing, high quality work, and can deliver the result in timely manner.

I'm new to photography business but I'm not new to customer service and photograhy in general (been shooting since the films day). I have no problem competing with local studios or any other photogs aorund here, because I had already cut into a piece of their pie, well...5 pieces if you count the upcoming 4 more schools in this area. For private session outside of the school I will only offer combo packages, and single prints will be offer in larger print size only (8x10 and up).

I'm not sure about the economy in New Zealand, perhaps everyone there are very rich and have no problem raining down tons of money on every single one of the photogs there regardless of the quality of their work. But here in America, majority of the folks are being hit pretty hard by the gas price and everything else like foods also go up. I'm establishing a new company you see, and we are not well known in this area yet, until I get the names out and get more referrals from people who have seen my works, otherwise placing an ads in the local news paper or yellowpage claiming how good we are simply ain't going to cut it, it is not an effective advertisement for a new company in this nature.

Giving out a free sitting session is a bad idea, and as LVPhotos point out it could backfire, time is money, for big order client I would much rather give out a 16x20 print from a file that I had already post processed in the first place, that has atleast $85 of value, than spending atleast 2 hour of my time on a new session for free. This is a failed strategy and not something I would get into. However, the idea of giving out credit or coupon for packages is doable, which I may try in the future.

tim wrote in post #5674729
I still think giving away high value items devalues them, it's nice to do for people and may get you business, but I just wonder what kind of word of mouth it'll give you - not as good, but as giving away high value items free.

feedbacks I got back from clients so far are all positive so I'm going to dismiss your negative suggestions.

ben805 wrote in post #5675130
feedbacks I got back from clients so far are all positive so I'm going to dismiss your negative suggestions.

It's always good to hear different ideas though ay?

tim wrote in post #5675933
It's always good to hear different ideas though ay?

Not necessary a bad thing to hear different opinions.

ben805 wrote in post #5675026
Giving out a free sitting session is a bad idea, and as LVPhotos point out it could backfire, time is money, for big order client I would much rather give out a 16x20 print ($14 out of pocket) from a file that I had already post processed in the first place, that has atleast $85 of value, than spending atleast 2 hour of my time on a new session for free. This is a failed strategy and not something I would get into. However, the idea of giving out credit or coupon for packages is doable, which I may try in the future.

Thanks but here's where you're missing it... if presented correctly (later on, as a "special for my best clients"... but not right away.

Giving away a free session WILL net you another $300+ in orders from each of these families... they've already proven they'll spend that much on ONE kid... just think about the entire family.

So you give a free session and 1 8x10, they ask, "well can I buy other prints". You say, "well yes, of course, I'm not one to turn down money, but this offer was made simply to reward my best clients. If you like the prints, I'll be happy to take care of you, but there's no requirement or even expectation that you'd order any."

See you can get away with this because they already spent a ton!

My company is giving away a free 2-hour Engagement Session to brides that book a full photography (wedding day) package. They get an 11x14. I've already booked 3 of them and all 3 have asked (before the shooting, even) if they could buy more prints, and I say just about the same thing as I typed above. I can almost guarantee they'll end up buying the CD or $200+ in prints, which in either case we almost make up for the cost of the session to begin with (we charge $349 for 2 hours including 8 poses on CD with full printing rights, and an 11x14 print).

So they almost end up paying what they WOULD have paid... and we still book the wedding day photography

See, that's how you gotta think!