Whats the Best way to beat the sun?

The Alienbees specs chart says a B1600 (640w-s) will get you f/22-f/32 at 10 feet with a medium softbox (let's go with f/22 for calculating).

You want the equivalent of f/64, which is three stops more.

So at 10 feet with a softbox, you'll need eight B1600 units.
Or at 5 feet you'll need two B1600 units.

Maybe a beauty dish will do better. I don't know. The unknown factor is the efficiency of the modifier. But the basic math says you need to double the light to get one stop more, quadruple the light to get two stops, etc. Changing the distance by a factor of 1.4 will require one stop more/less. Doubling or halving the distance from light to subject changes the power requirement by 2 stops.

I'm a newb so listen to Curtis more than me.

Alternatively, use a reflector to use the sun to combat itself, especially in the example photo you posted. The downside is you don't get the same control as a strobe but it's not mean to replace a strobe, merely enhance the effect.

If Paul buff uses the same Beauty Dish for the Alien Bees as for the White Lightning (which I have), it usually gives me about an extra 1 stop over my soft boxes. That would get him down to needing 2 stops rather than three. Using a reflector could get him even closer by a 1/2 stop or more, but the light would be more direct and harsh.

TeeTee wrote in post #5591891
I'm a newb so listen to Curtis more than me.

Alternatively, use a reflector to use the sun to combat itself, especially in the example photo you posted. The downside is you don't get the same control as a strobe but it's not mean to replace a strobe, merely enhance the effect.

I was going to suggest the same thing except to use the reflector in conjunction with a strobe to get the look he's looking for.

in my experience beauty dishes are 1 to 1 1/2 stops more effecient than that of a medium soft box

Curtis N wrote in post #5591635
The Alienbees specs chart says a B1600 (640w-s) will get you f/22-f/32 at 10 feet with a medium softbox (let's go with f/22 for calculating).

You want the equivalent of f/64, which is three stops more.

So at 10 feet with a softbox, you'll need eight B1600 units.
Or at 5 feet you'll need two B1600 units.

Maybe a beauty dish will do better. I don't know. The unknown factor is the efficiency of the modifier. But the basic math says you need to double the light to get one stop more, quadruple the light to get two stops, etc. Changing the distance by a factor of 1.4 will require one stop more/less. Doubling or halving the distance from light to subject changes the power requirement by 2 stops.

So does having 2 AB1600 = the equivalent of having 1 XL3200? I recall somewhere that someone stated having more of the same output strobe doesn't increase the intensity, but can be used to even out the light, i.e putting one on one side and one on the other side of the model.

turbodude wrote in post #5591413
i would suggest a XL3200. it has a 1/4 power option. so you can you use it as a XL800 when you need less power indoors. i am planning on buying one. and a beauty dish, that shot looks like it was shot with one or a feathered softbox

Oh shoot, I didn't even think they made a XL3200 unit. Yes, I much rather get that than the Zeus.

If you don't need too much Mp, pick up a 1Dino or Nikon D70, and sync at 1/1000 or 1/2000 instead of messing with ND filters.

René Damkot wrote in post #5593132
If you don't need too much Mp, pick up a 1Dino or Nikon D70, and sync at 1/1000 or 1/2000 instead of messing with ND filters.

Huh?

they have electronic shutters. they can sync at much higher rate than 1/250, vs haviing to use flash power you can use shutterspeed to kill the ambient.

The 1D classic and the D70 (and some other earlier Nikons) can sync with non-dedicated flashes at any selectable shutter speed - I believe it's due to an electronic shutter implementation alongside the mechanical shutter.

Yep. More on that here and here.

TeeTee wrote in post #5591891
I'm a newb so listen to Curtis more than me.

Alternatively, use a reflector to use the sun to combat itself, especially in the example photo you posted. The downside is you don't get the same control as a strobe but it's not mean to replace a strobe, merely enhance the effect.

Reflectors blind models.

M Powered wrote in post #5592660
So does having 2 AB1600 = the equivalent of having 1 XL3200? I recall somewhere that someone stated having more of the same output strobe doesn't increase the intensity, but can be used to even out the light, i.e putting one on one side and one on the other side of the model.

Having two AB1600's will give you a 1 stop increase in power output over a single AB1600. Having 4 AB1600's will give you a 2 stop increase in power output, and having 8 AB1600's will give you a 3 stop increase in power output.

It continues like this, doubling the number of strobes for each 1 stop increase, until you reach the same output level of the sun. At that point the heat is so intense that it melts the earth, and we start over with the big bang theory and film. Because of that, never exceed 16,324 AB1600's at one time

Or in other words, Its the inverse square law, and he was wrong. It does increase the power output, and each time you double the light output, you gain 1 stop.

M Powered wrote in post #5592660
So does having 2 AB1600 = the equivalent of having 1 XL3200? I recall somewhere that someone stated having more of the same output strobe doesn't increase the intensity, but can be used to even out the light, i.e putting one on one side and one on the other side of the model.

sfaust wrote in post #5594036
Having two AB1600's will give you a 1 stop increase in power output over a single AB1600. Having 4 AB1600's will give you a 2 stop increase in power output, and having 8 AB1600's will give you a 3 stop increase in power output.

It continues like this, doubling the number of strobes for each 1 stop increase, until you reach the same output level of the sun. At that point the heat is so intense that it melts the earth, and we start over with the big bang theory and film. Because of that, never exceed 16,324 AB1600's at one time

Or in other words, Its the inverse square law, and he was wrong. It does increase the power output, and each time you double the light output, you gain 1 stop.

It all depends on where the lights are pointed. if they're all pointed at different parts of the scene, then obviously, the light levels are not going to add up (except for areas that overlap). If they're all pointed at the same area, then they'll add up geometrically.