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Thread started 24 May 2008 (Saturday) 20:12
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EveryMilesAMemory
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May 24, 2008 20:12 |  #1

I wanted to bring up something that has been bothering me for quite some time now.

The differance between the Real Life Pulishing of our work, and what actually gets published in the magazines we see on the news stands.

I've been in the magazine business for 5 years now publishing a small entertainment magazine that covers the Entertainment/Bars & Nightlife in Southeastern Michigan. It's nothing too big, just a local monthly magazine that covers a bit of everything, but 90% of it is bar related.

I know a bit about marketing, advertising and the putting together of the ads that get businesses noticed. So I tend to look through any other magazine a bit differently than most of you do. I'm one of those guys that really looks at everything in each issue, especially the ads to see who is advertising in what magazine and how the ads are laid out.

Being as my whole life revolves around photography and travel, I tend to really study the ads in these types of magazines. I see what images are selling and how they're taken so they catch the readers eye. What I notice most is many of the images used in advertising doesnt catch the readers eye?

As most of you know, I try to keep up on this forum as well as a few other photography forums always looking to get my images that I post picked apart as much as possible so I can better my work.

Most of what I hear is "Straighten Your Horizons" "The image isnt tack sharp" or little things like that. I also submit a lot of my work to Istock and a few other stock photo agencies to try and suppliment this expensive hobby of mine anyway I can.

Istock is very hard to get images accepted, and the littlest things like Sharpness, color, backgrounds and subject matter can get your work rejected. Stock agencies are very frustrating because they pay next to nothing for your work, and the process of submitting them is very time consuming. I find myself doing this when I cant sleep at night and dont have anything else to do.

This is another thing that makes me look at advertisements in magazines as I know when our ad department for our magazine is putting together customer ads, if I dont have stock work for them to use, then we need to buy images from Istock ourselves.

What I'm getting at is....Lets take Outdoor Photographer Magazine as an example. Looking through the April 2008 issue, there are numerous ads, many of them being full page ads that probably cost the companies paying for the ads thousands of dollars. What kills me, is many of these ads arent good photography at all, and this is a photography magazine.

If I was to try and submit the images used in these ads to either a stock agency or post them on this forum for critique, they'd get denied from the stock agency, and my fellow photographers who I so love to have pick apart my images would shred them to pieces.

In one issue alone these are a few things that stood out to me.

Page 7 of the April issue - The Black & White Kodak ad advertising their Professional T-Max film is a very flat, boring image. I know if I tried to submit that to Istock, it would get denied. If I was to post that same image on here, most would tell me to do something to it to make it stand out more or have something in it that makes it a stronger image.

What was Kodak thinking when they paid good money for a boring ad like this?

Page 13 - Same Issue - This ad bothers me so much!! I see it in numerous publications, and except for the fact that the lighting is great and the subject is very cool, the image is so out of focus that I would get tore apart if I was to post it on here or try to submit it to any stock agency. That full page color ad cost the Florida Birding & Fotofest thousands of dollars in this issue alone, and they use it in almost every photo magazine on the news stand today.

Page 39 of the same issue - The photo used in the Sigma ad for the 18-200mm lens is just not that appealing! I know if I was contemplating buying that lens, that image wouldnt make me run out and buy it. I know many of you would comment "If only the subject in the foreground was better lit, it would make that image so much more appealing" Yet here it is being used by Sigma as a full page ad which they paid thousands for in this publication alone. I've seen the same ad in numerous photo magazines.

Page 49 - The ad for the Induro Carbon 8x tripod. The bottom of the leg, closest to the camera is cut off. This is something that gets mentioned in almost every photo posted in any of the Glamour & NUde section or in the People Section. For some reason everyone hates it when any piece of the subject is cut out of the the image? Not that big of a deal, but again, this company paid thousands for an ad that I'd get shot down for.

Page 95, the ad for the Bear Camp in Alaska, the bear is OOF? WTF is that?

Page 97, the ad for Rocky Mountain School of Photography?? Why would I want to go to that school after looking at that image? What is that image of even? It too is OOF!

Page 101, the ad for Filterhouse, the mountain used in the ad is very flat and not all that sharp, what are they trying to sell with that ad?

This issue was surprisingly very good when it came to the ads and the images in the ads. Some magazines I can hardly believe the advertisers who are wasting their money when it comes to the poor images used and the way the ads are set up.

Maybe you think like my wife does, and just think I over-analize everything, but I get very frustrated when many very good photographers cant make a living out there, and you have companies wasting money on shoddy work that is getting them no where.

Ok, I just had to vent and get that off my chest:D


Pat Bonish
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Mike ­ R
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May 24, 2008 22:21 |  #2

Maybe it's a case of "they get what they pay for" I'm not involved in stock but it seems as if more and more people are submitting to the micro stock agencies and companies are going to them for their photo needs.
I think it's only natural to look at things the way you do since you're in the business. I work in the fire/security industry and whenever I go into a store, I look for the cameras and other protective equipment to see what is used.


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eddarr
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May 24, 2008 22:40 |  #3

Those ads are not directed at professionals. Simply put they are trying to get business from newbies. The expectation is that a pro or experienced amateur will already know exactly what they want and where to get it. The ads are shopping for dollars.

I have the same issue with ads about Dell blade servers and IBM integration software. Do they really think the CIO of GM is going to be watching a baseball game and see and ad for Dell servers and suddenly understand why they are losing $4 billion dollars a quarter.

It's a waste of money that if a department doesn't spend it they don't get more money next budget meeting.


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neumanns
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May 25, 2008 08:19 |  #4

When I browse the local rags...Be it tourism,mags,newsprint​, It also amazes me how often they will pay $200-400 for a full page spread and use a $0.10 photo.

I could go on and on but....I hear ya!


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breal101
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May 25, 2008 09:26 |  #5

In the business forum there are many posts saying, "I just got hired to shoot xxxx for an ad, how do I shoot xxxx and how much should I charge?". That could have something to do with what you are seeing. It also depends on on your perspective, some people consider "Dogs Playing Poker" to be art, others are revolted. Personally, browsing the CC section, I find a narrow view of what makes a good picture. Everything under the sun has been done in advertising photography sometimes in an effort to be different they get a little out there.


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EveryMilesAMemory
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May 25, 2008 16:40 as a reply to  @ breal101's post |  #6

Thanks for the comments everyone, I'm glad to see that others notice the items I talked of.

As for the Dell ads, my wife and I have asked that same question..LOL Do theyreally think some CEO is going to call them in the morning to say "Hey, I saw you're commercial last night during the Super Bowl, and I want you towork for me!"

Not!, you just wasted 4 million on a stupid commercial that got you no where!


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ashleynaugust
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May 25, 2008 17:08 |  #7

What gets to me are the BAD photoshops in magazine articles and ads!

I have several parenting magazines, Time, home and garden, and I only halfway flip through them and I still catch awful PS jobs in every issue. I could do better my first week with microsoft Picture IT! and I suck at PP, lol. For instance, a DIY animal lunchbag article. Several of the bags were duplicated in the half-page image, and their ears switched or recolored to look like a different bag, when it was a (poor) PS of one elsewhere on the page, shadows wrong and everything.

Yesterday a mainstream news.com site had a pic of Maxim's top 100 model, Marisa Miller, and her hair was so poorly PS'ed from the previous background onto black it looked like a kindergartener had cut her out with scissors.

Yuck!


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EveryMilesAMemory
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May 26, 2008 11:48 as a reply to  @ ashleynaugust's post |  #8

I didnt even get into other magazines because I could go on for days with the awful photochoped ads

I get this one RV Magazine and the ads are so bad, that what you said about the kindergardner cutting and pasting makes this magazine look like a pre-schooler with a cast on both hands did the cut and pasting!


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CanadianKitKat
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May 26, 2008 18:50 |  #9

EveryMilesAMemory wrote in post #5590054 (external link)
Istock is very hard to get images accepted, and the littlest things like Sharpness, color, backgrounds and subject matter can get your work rejected.

Ummmm....... littlest things? I hope I missed the sarcasm.........


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EveryMilesAMemory
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May 26, 2008 22:37 |  #10

CanadianKitKat wrote in post #5600862 (external link)
Ummmm....... littlest things? I hope I missed the sarcasm.........

Yeah I now see how dumb that sounded, what I meant by that statement was comparing the images I've gotten rejected by Istock compared to the images I've seen in national magazines.

Sharpness, Color, Background...etc obviously isnt a concern to sell the image to a major advertiser, but it is for Istock to accept it for them to buy?


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garbidz
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May 27, 2008 05:34 |  #11

There are really mediocre photos where you'd least expect them. You are wondering why but the answer is quite simple: The guys in the ad agency have nephews with DSLR's just like you do. Why should you pay somebody to get an one shot copyright and if anything goes wrong, a court case on your back?

Whereas Tommy can do it for you next for nothing and money stays in the family.

no rocket science here


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neilwood32
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May 27, 2008 06:38 |  #12

I think the problem is that the guys doing the buying really have no idea what makes a "great" photo. They look at a photo and say "well it fits the brief" and thats all thats needed. They are not photographers generally and know that people will not generally spend too much time looking at the images in too much depth.

Plus there is probably a good sized amount of laziness (or time pressure) involved in them accepting the first images they see.


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Playonpics.com
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May 27, 2008 07:05 |  #13

i did marketing at univesity. And i like to know... Is the ad still in your head? wether good or bad its still there.. You manage to help thoses advertisers EVEN more now since you made a post about the magazine and also about 6 or ads in there.. **** they got their money right there.. You made it so this thread go X amount of views. In the end pictures aren't always the main thing. As long as you see Sigma or whatever its all that matters. Its called Brand Awareness... As long as people know about their brand that is out there and show that company is continuously Putting out (to new photographers) New gear that would matter to them. Again they aren't trying to selll to high end photographers. Thats not their target consumers. Its the new entry level. And so on and so forth with the other ads.
As for the other ads of being OOF maybe they are trying to more emphesis on another object or even another Word.
i would love to see the actual ads

Holy crap i can't seem to just type ads. its always ADDS bah


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garbidz
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May 27, 2008 14:00 |  #14

As for me, I remember going to a Benetton shop to buy anything, just anything besause the fantastic shots of Toscani (external link) were out. They did not have anything my size. I got a sweater for my niece.

They had a fantastic campaign out from Hennes&Mauritz but again...I went in just to see that their stuff was...are you ready...garbidz. And again the same thing with IKEA, lovely ideas, first class work all the way in their ads. And the stuff they're is nowhere up their publicity. Soviet sawdust.

Not so easy.
Most of the ads I see make me want to put my money on long term funds or just anything BUT the things that are being advertized.
Where did they go, all of a sudden, the creative guys of the '80s?
Married with 3 kids, a SUV and a trophy wife, a mortgage, a retirement plan.

Or maybe I'm just getting old..?
(tell me it ain't so)


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