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Thread started 27 May 2008 (Tuesday) 09:36
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120 film stock

 
airfrogusmc
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May 31, 2008 13:07 as a reply to  @ post 5631133 |  #31

I've shot with ilford, agfa (still gotta roll of agfapan 25 in the freezer :rolleyes:) All very good B&W emulsions. Have you tried long time with weaker dilutions on tech pan? I've never been fond of the stuff myself but I have heard some folks have gotten good results from other developers with modified dilutions maybe even split try a split developer.

I've always favored kodachrome archival qualities (K 14) but I've also gotten very good results from some of the e 6 process. When I was in college I would process e 6 4X5 by hand in trays. 14 steps if I remember first three in total darkness.




  
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Karl ­ C
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May 31, 2008 13:48 |  #32

airfrogusmc wrote in post #5630581 (external link)


And t-max 400 shot at 400 processed in rodinal 1:50 at 68 degrees for 8 minutes with 5 inversions ever 60 seconds with constant agitation for the first 60 secs. In the print there is BEAUTIFUL detail in the shadows and the skin tone and texture are amazing. Lost allot on the scan, jpg compression and viewing it on a monitor.



QUOTED IMAGE

An excellent photo, sir. To me, it possesses perfect tonal range and lighting and is an great example why I love film for B&W. There is no way current digital sensors and editing programs can match B&W film.

Thank you for sharing.


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DrPablo
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May 31, 2008 14:10 |  #33

airfrogusmc wrote in post #5631457 (external link)
I've shot with ilford, agfa (still gotta roll of agfapan 25 in the freezer :rolleyes:) All very good B&W emulsions. Have you tried long time with weaker dilutions on tech pan?

Not with Technidol, but I have with XTOL. I've gotten better results that way. The trick I think is choosing the right scene. A low contrast scene with lots of detail would probably be stunning with Tech Pan, but it doesn't have a 'normal' spectral sensitivity -- thus I've found that the sky always has a weird tonality. It's quite red sensitive, though, so I've heard that it renders skin quite well.

I've always favored kodachrome archival qualities (K 14) but I've also gotten very good results from some of the e 6 process. When I was in college I would process e 6 4X5 by hand in trays. 14 steps if I remember first three in total darkness.

If I had the wherewithal I'd get a jobo processor and do all my own E6 and C41 (and RA4 and cibachrome) processing myself. As it is, right now I can't even do B&W. Since moving from Boston a year ago I haven't had a darkroom, and we've just had other priorities with our house since I moved down. But I'm about to join the faculty at Duke and I'll have access to their darkroom there, so that will get me back into the swing.

It'll be all lith printing all the time for me -- that's my new favorite B&W "alternative" process:

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A crop from the door:
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Persephone
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Jun 01, 2008 00:24 |  #34

Ah, 120 film...that brings me back the old days...early 2006, when my Photo 1 teacher introduced us to 120. It was huge film, and he loaded it into twin-lens reflex cameras and had us walk around and take shots. It was really cool to be able to blow up 8x10s and make them nice and clear, but it was disconcerting to have to move the camera right to move the frame left.


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briancmo
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Jun 03, 2008 08:31 |  #35

hbdragon88 wrote in post #5634424 (external link)
Ah, 120 film...that brings me back the old days...early 2006, when my Photo 1 teacher introduced us to 120. It was huge film, and he loaded it into twin-lens reflex cameras and had us walk around and take shots. It was really cool to be able to blow up 8x10s and make them nice and clear, but it was disconcerting to have to move the camera right to move the frame left.

hilarious! Thats exactly what I have...a twin lens where the image is flopped so it really throws your brain for a loop...regardless though, there's something about the whole process...taking your time with film t get the shot just right before hitting the shutter button. With my digital, I'm a little click happy :o


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tiziano
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Jun 03, 2008 08:37 |  #36

I love using my medium format gear.
It is so cumbersome, and I have so few shots, that I am forced to turn my brain on! :)


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airfrogusmc
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Jun 03, 2008 08:37 as a reply to  @ briancmo's post |  #37

Get under the dark cloth of large format and its upside down to.




  
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Karl ­ C
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Jun 03, 2008 12:06 |  #38

hbdragon88 wrote in post #5634424 (external link)
Ah, 120 film...that brings me back the old days...early 2006, when my Photo 1 teacher introduced us to 120. It was huge film, and he loaded it into twin-lens reflex cameras and had us walk around and take shots. It was really cool to be able to blow up 8x10s and make them nice and clear, but it was disconcerting to have to move the camera right to move the frame left.

I truly enjoyed shooting with the Rolleicord TLR, even if it was for a short time. Completely manual and required forethought of the shot. I looked at KEH and can buy a decent Bronica SQ MF system for about $300. Sorely tempted.

airfrogusmc wrote in post #5649335 (external link)
Get under the dark cloth of large format and its upside down to.

Now you're piqued my creative curiosity, what's it like to shoot LF? Sheet film?


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briancmo
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Jun 03, 2008 12:45 |  #39

Pro400h - shot a role of film and yuck! My prints look terrible! They're so low contrast and not very saturated... I know it's not really meant for landscapes and more for portraits. I'm getting some reprinted at a different lab and getting a scan done to see if it might have just been bad prints.

In the past I've really on shot Reala 100 and it looked great! Super punchy color and was really happy with the labs work.

Thoughts?


Brian
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DocFrankenstein
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Jun 03, 2008 14:08 |  #40

briancmo wrote in post #5650801 (external link)
Pro400h - shot a role of film and yuck! My prints look terrible! They're so low contrast and not very saturated... I know it's not really meant for landscapes and more for portraits. I'm getting some reprinted at a different lab and getting a scan done to see if it might have just been bad prints.

In the past I've really on shot Reala 100 and it looked great! Super punchy color and was really happy with the labs work.

Thoughts?

Low contrast mean good exposure latitude... so that's a "good" film, it's just been printed incorrectly.


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rdenney
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Jun 03, 2008 17:29 |  #41

Karl C wrote in post #5650543 (external link)
Now you're piqued my creative curiosity, what's it like to shoot LF? Sheet film?

First, you go into the darkroom and load film sheets into film holders. There is a rigor to doing this. First, you are in total darkness. You always place the box in the same place, and you have an ingrained procedure for how you open the lid on the box and open the envelope that contains the film. You have the film holders stacked in their correct spot. You pull out the dark slide, flip open the end cap, hold the film with the notches under your right forefinger, and slide them into the holder. Then, you brush them with a static-master brush (did I mention that the darkroom should be kept as dust-free as possible?). You turn the dark slide over so that the white side will be out (there are notches to feel for this, too), and slide it in place, making sure it locks into the end cap. Repeat that process twice for each film holder. Then, you place the film holder in the stack of filled holders.

There are alternatives to this process, but they aren't cheap.

In the field, you walk around until you find the point of view that you think captures your intent. You set up your tripod and mount the camera on it, with an appropriate lens. You open the shutter (there is a slide control that opens the shutter separately from the shutter release), and set the lens to maximum aperture. You then adjust the position of the lens board to achieve an approximate focus. If the basic composition confirms the lens choice, then you throw a dark cloth over the camera, and retreat under the cloth with a 10X loupe to inspect parts of the ground glass. What follows is an extensive amount of adjustment of aperture, lens and back tilts and swings to get the proper perspective and to get everything in focus, checking all parts of the ground glass repeatedly with the loupe.

Once you are satisfied that the camera is set up properly, you look again at the composition to ensure that you are still happy with it.

Then, you pull out your 1-degree spot meter and start surveying the light on the scene, placing the highlights on the brighter end of the scale and the shadows on the darker end, and choosing an exposure that keeps both within the capabilities of the film and development (and that takes lots of personal testing and experience). You have already selected the aperture to achieve acceptable sharpness, and the ISO is dictated by the film, so you only have shutter speed left to play with. It might be measured in seconds.

You close and cock the shutter, and then set the shutter speed on the dial (or count the seconds--I carried a small electronic metronome with me and put the speed on MM60--one beat per second) and attach your cable release. Then you check to make sure you closed the shutter.

Then, you slide the film holder into the camera. Then, you check the shutter yet again. Then pull the dark slide out and use it to shade the lens outside the field of view (or, if necessary, use a compendium shade, which must be adjusted to just avoid darkening the frame edges--most view cameras have open corners in the ground glass so you can be sure nothing is blocking the light reaching the corner of the frame).

Then, you look at the subject, and wait for the right time to make the exposure. This would be quite a while, if the shutter speed is long and there is a breeze.

Once you have made the exposure, you consider the scene again. Is there a better point of view? Some people make trial exposures using Polaroid film--the chimping of yesteryear. I know I did. But it doubles the cost, at least.

Then, you take the film holders back into the darkroom, and go through a similar process to loading them in order to unload them into a film box.

To process them, I used hangers and deep tanks. I slipped the film into the hanger, and filled ten hangers. Then, I held the hangers between my two hands while inserting and extracting them from the various tanks of chemicals.

Printing them is just like printing roll film, except that the enlarger is quite a bit bigger.

Yes, it does encourage an attitude of quiet patience.

Rick "for whom a good day was four usable images" Denney


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airfrogusmc
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Jun 03, 2008 19:15 |  #42

Karl C wrote in post #5650543 (external link)
I truly enjoyed shooting with the Rolleicord TLR, even if it was for a short time. Completely manual and required forethought of the shot. I looked at KEH and can buy a decent Bronica SQ MF system for about $300. Sorely tempted.


Now you're piqued my creative curiosity, what's it like to shoot LF? Sheet film?

A viewcamera has a bellows a lens board to mount a lens and the front and back can tilt and shift the front can rise and fall well here.

http://en.wikipedia.or​g/wiki/View_camera (external link)

http://en.wikipedia.or​g/wiki/Large_format (external link)

http://deardorffcamera​s.0catch.com/ (external link)




  
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Karl ­ C
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Jun 03, 2008 21:11 as a reply to  @ airfrogusmc's post |  #43

Thanks for the info on LF. Sounds like LF is for a specific niche such as landscape and portrait, neither of which I do.

While LF is interesting, think I'll stick with 35mm for now and maybe MF in the future. I have a hard enough time with 35mm! :lol:

Again, thanks for the help.


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airfrogusmc
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Jun 03, 2008 21:42 as a reply to  @ Karl C's post |  #44

LF will slow you down. Its an incredible discipline. Michael Johnson a pretty well known midwest landscape photographer once told me a story of waiting 2 hours for a cloud to get in the exact spot to balance a composition. That photograph is in the permanent collection at the Art Institute in Chicago. It forces you to become very conscience of even the edges of the frame. Heres a guy that did street photography with a 4X5 and a Hasselblad for his East 100th Street project click on East 100th st Amazing work...

http://www.art-dept.com/artists/david​son/ (external link)

Most really serious landscape photographers at one time or another usually deal with LF and the zone system.




  
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airfrogusmc
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Jun 03, 2008 21:49 |  #45

rdenney wrote in post #5652742 (external link)
First, you go into the darkroom and load film sheets into film holders. There is a rigor to doing this. First, you are in total darkness. You always place the box in the same place, and you have an ingrained procedure for how you open the lid on the box and open the envelope that contains the film. You have the film holders stacked in their correct spot. You pull out the dark slide, flip open the end cap, hold the film with the notches under your right forefinger, and slide them into the holder. Then, you brush them with a static-master brush (did I mention that the darkroom should be kept as dust-free as possible?). You turn the dark slide over so that the white side will be out (there are notches to feel for this, too), and slide it in place, making sure it locks into the end cap. Repeat that process twice for each film holder. Then, you place the film holder in the stack of filled holders.

There are alternatives to this process, but they aren't cheap.

In the field, you walk around until you find the point of view that you think captures your intent. You set up your tripod and mount the camera on it, with an appropriate lens. You open the shutter (there is a slide control that opens the shutter separately from the shutter release), and set the lens to maximum aperture. You then adjust the position of the lens board to achieve an approximate focus. If the basic composition confirms the lens choice, then you throw a dark cloth over the camera, and retreat under the cloth with a 10X loupe to inspect parts of the ground glass. What follows is an extensive amount of adjustment of aperture, lens and back tilts and swings to get the proper perspective and to get everything in focus, checking all parts of the ground glass repeatedly with the loupe.

Once you are satisfied that the camera is set up properly, you look again at the composition to ensure that you are still happy with it.

Then, you pull out your 1-degree spot meter and start surveying the light on the scene, placing the highlights on the brighter end of the scale and the shadows on the darker end, and choosing an exposure that keeps both within the capabilities of the film and development (and that takes lots of personal testing and experience). You have already selected the aperture to achieve acceptable sharpness, and the ISO is dictated by the film, so you only have shutter speed left to play with. It might be measured in seconds.

You close and cock the shutter, and then set the shutter speed on the dial (or count the seconds--I carried a small electronic metronome with me and put the speed on MM60--one beat per second) and attach your cable release. Then you check to make sure you closed the shutter.

Then, you slide the film holder into the camera. Then, you check the shutter yet again. Then pull the dark slide out and use it to shade the lens outside the field of view (or, if necessary, use a compendium shade, which must be adjusted to just avoid darkening the frame edges--most view cameras have open corners in the ground glass so you can be sure nothing is blocking the light reaching the corner of the frame).

Then, you look at the subject, and wait for the right time to make the exposure. This would be quite a while, if the shutter speed is long and there is a breeze.

Once you have made the exposure, you consider the scene again. Is there a better point of view? Some people make trial exposures using Polaroid film--the chimping of yesteryear. I know I did. But it doubles the cost, at least.

Then, you take the film holders back into the darkroom, and go through a similar process to loading them in order to unload them into a film box.

To process them, I used hangers and deep tanks. I slipped the film into the hanger, and filled ten hangers. Then, I held the hangers between my two hands while inserting and extracting them from the various tanks of chemicals.

Printing them is just like printing roll film, except that the enlarger is quite a bit bigger.

Yes, it does encourage an attitude of quiet patience.

Rick "for whom a good day was four usable images" Denney

Yeah you get exposure for the shadow with your spot meter, whether you want it at zone II or III and then calculate your exposure. Then you meter your highlight and see the contrast range and figure where you want to place that highlight. That will determine your negative development time. A stop to much contrast N-1 need a stop more N+1. I used to process my sheets in trays usually 14 sheets at a time. The agitation would be bottom sheet to top and 14 sheets would give me the perfect agitation. AHHH the good old days.




  
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