Approve the Cookies
This website uses cookies to improve your user experience. By using this site, you agree to our use of cookies and our Privacy Policy.
OK
Forums  •   • New posts  •   • RTAT  •   • 'Best of'  •   • Gallery  •   • Gear
Guest
Forums  •   • New posts  •   • RTAT  •   • 'Best of'  •   • Gallery  •   • Gear
Register to forums    Log in

 
FORUMS Community Talk, Chatter & Stuff General Photography Talk 
Thread started 02 Jun 2008 (Monday) 21:55
Search threadPrev/next
sponsored links (only for non-logged)

So is equipment really a big factor?

 
sjones
Goldmember
Avatar
2,261 posts
Likes: 249
Joined Aug 2005
Location: Chicago
     
Jun 04, 2008 04:24 |  #61

Adamora wrote in post #5656257 (external link)
Well...i didnt put alot of thought into it, and i didnt want to get into this flame war (a low flame for now) But certain people need Certain Things to achieve something. i would want a Faster camera to shoot fast subjects.

I am simply trying to underscore the importance of aesthetics, which is highly subjective and often marginalized during these discussions. Most people who advocate the importance of skill recognize that gear is important on some level. Last week, in a similar thread, I wrote the following (sorry for the redundancy, but…):

"…While there are varying opinions on this matter, two angles, at least for me, stand out:

1. Gear is important; you at least need a camera to take a picture. But it can go beyond that. A sports or wildlife photographer might improve their work (which could help generate increased revenue) if they acquired longer reach and a faster frame per second rate; a low light shooter might benefit from a faster, albeit pricey, lens; architectural shots might require an equally expensive tilt-shift lens; while a collector might sell his family to a snakehead trafficking syndicate to bask in the joy of procuring a limited edition Spice Girls Leica M6 rangefinder, bound in Day-Glo dyed leather.

Fair enough, most people on this site, by the very nature of being on this site, recognize that gear is important to some extent.

2. To me, the issue is not so much the importance of gear, but the argument that the mere attainment of high-end gear automatically translates to improved photos. Advocates of this view can quickly point to the above-mentioned examples where upgrading might indeed prove beneficial. Yet, even if a pro finds it a worthwhile investment to move from mediocre to high-end gear, the pro still had to develop the skills to become a pro in the first place (assuming this person is worthy of the title). Just as a quick side note, let us not get stuck on the ludicrous notion that a "pro" is the final reference point for photographic quality. The gear is important, but only to the extent in which a photographer can capitalize on it, and to what extent it facilitates his or her objectives; and these values are going to vary, sometimes immensely, depending on the individual.

One of only six photographers commissioned by the Salt Lake Olympic Committee, veteran photojournalist David Burnett (http://www.davidburnet​t.com/index.html (external link)), used a Holga to photograph the 2002 Games, while receiving an award for a portrait of Al Gore using the same cheap device. It is absolutely irrelevant if a better camera could have taken technically superior photos at the Olympics; that was not his point.

This then leads us into the issue of quality, which has its own dualistic issues:

1. Quality as defined by images that are tack sharp, low distortion, low chromatic aberration (CA), high resolution, and accurate color among other indicators.

2. Quality as defined by the photograph's aesthetic appeal: visually, cognitively, viscerally, or any combination of such. This is where the subject matter, the composition, the unique angle, the tones, lighting, wit, and creativity come into play; all of it pretty much subjective. There are countless photos of high quality, as defined by definition 1, that are still complete crap, while there are phenomenal photos that nevertheless score low in most of the measurable indexes.

The debate is largely fueled by the fact that all of these issues and definitions mentioned, and many others not broached, mix, and the ratio of this mix in terms of value is going to differ among each person."


May 2022-January 2023 (external link)

  
  LOG IN TO REPLY
cdifoto
Don't get pissy with me
Avatar
34,092 posts
Likes: 48
Joined Dec 2005
     
Jun 04, 2008 06:53 |  #62

Jbs wrote in post #5646851 (external link)
Would the camera body be a big factor in adding that extra depth and color?

Not exactly a sexy babe & little more than a snapshot but I took this with a 10D and a Pentax 50mm f/1.4:

http://i14.photobucket​.com …foto/2008-06-04-0001b.jpg (external link)

Does it qualify as having "that extra depth and color"? Maybe.


Did you lose Digital Photo Professional (DPP)? Get it here (external link). Cursing at your worse-than-a-map reflector? Check out this vid! (external link)

  
  LOG IN TO REPLY
airfrogusmc
I'm a chimper. There I said it...
37,970 posts
Gallery: 179 photos
Best ofs: 6
Likes: 13442
Joined May 2007
Location: Oak Park, Illinois
     
Jun 04, 2008 08:16 |  #63

Glenn NK wrote in post #5653497 (external link)
There have been comparisons between the 40D and the 5D, and often the difference has been shown to be smaller than one would expect.

Yes, I believe the differences can be exploited in the hands of a gifted photographer, but I believe the greatest difference is between photographers and different processing.

As for the "discussion" on seeing the light, quite frankly there are too many of us that can't see it, don't understand this, and likely never will.

There are also people that will never be artistic or creative. That's the truth folks - we're not all gifted musicians/artists just because some no talent cluck makes it big on "xxxx Idol". Some of us are just fortunate to become competent technicians.

Glenn I don't buy the "I don't see light" for one second. You signature says

Available Light: It's what you take pictures with.

If your available light photographs are successful then you are seeing light.
I remember reading an something from Adams talking about Weston. Adams was saying that Weston said he didn't know the zone system and Adams said to him you might not realize it or are able to articulate it but its in every one of your photographs. Being able to recognize when the light is right and seeing a photographic possibility is sometime a split second decision. Its something that becomes second nature.






  
  LOG IN TO REPLY
20droger
Cream of the Crop
14,685 posts
Likes: 27
Joined Dec 2006
     
Jun 04, 2008 09:00 |  #64

cdifoto wrote in post #5656694 (external link)
Not exactly a sexy babe & little more than a snapshot but I took this with a 10D and a Pentax 50mm f/1.4:

http://i14.photobucket​.com …foto/2008-06-04-0001b.jpg (external link)

Does it qualify as having "that extra depth and color"? Maybe.

But your "horizon" is tilted! Perhaps if you had had a better camera and lens....




  
  LOG IN TO REPLY
cdifoto
Don't get pissy with me
Avatar
34,092 posts
Likes: 48
Joined Dec 2005
     
Jun 04, 2008 09:07 |  #65

Hey you get what you pay for! :D

Here's another cheap shot:

http://i14.photobucket​.com …ifoto/2008-06-04-0002.jpg (external link)


Did you lose Digital Photo Professional (DPP)? Get it here (external link). Cursing at your worse-than-a-map reflector? Check out this vid! (external link)

  
  LOG IN TO REPLY
Adamora
Who said i want a title? :(
Avatar
4,742 posts
Gallery: 6 photos
Likes: 7
Joined Aug 2007
Location: Dubai
     
Jun 04, 2008 09:09 |  #66

cdifoto wrote in post #5656694 (external link)
Not exactly a sexy babe & little more than a snapshot but I took this with a 10D and a Pentax 50mm f/1.4:

http://i14.photobucket​.com …foto/2008-06-04-0001b.jpg (external link)

Does it qualify as having "that extra depth and color"? Maybe.

Oh dear god :O, I WANT THOSE COLORS!!!


[Adam]
[100D][Nifty Fifty]

  
  LOG IN TO REPLY
cdifoto
Don't get pissy with me
Avatar
34,092 posts
Likes: 48
Joined Dec 2005
     
Jun 04, 2008 09:10 |  #67

Adamora wrote in post #5657309 (external link)
Oh dear god :O, I WANT THOSE COLORS!!!

Shoot some rednetto (redneck + ghetto) toys on an overcast day and you can have 'em! :lol:


Did you lose Digital Photo Professional (DPP)? Get it here (external link). Cursing at your worse-than-a-map reflector? Check out this vid! (external link)

  
  LOG IN TO REPLY
Adamora
Who said i want a title? :(
Avatar
4,742 posts
Gallery: 6 photos
Likes: 7
Joined Aug 2007
Location: Dubai
     
Jun 04, 2008 09:14 |  #68

cdifoto wrote in post #5657319 (external link)
Shoot some rednetto (redneck + ghetto) toys on an overcast day and you can have 'em! :lol:

Overcast :(? an impossible dream.


[Adam]
[100D][Nifty Fifty]

  
  LOG IN TO REPLY
cdifoto
Don't get pissy with me
Avatar
34,092 posts
Likes: 48
Joined Dec 2005
     
Jun 04, 2008 09:16 |  #69

Ahh yes that's right you're over there in Sun City. It's funny though...British photographers **** about their dreary days but man I'd love it over there. Overcast days are a giant, free softbox.


Did you lose Digital Photo Professional (DPP)? Get it here (external link). Cursing at your worse-than-a-map reflector? Check out this vid! (external link)

  
  LOG IN TO REPLY
Adamora
Who said i want a title? :(
Avatar
4,742 posts
Gallery: 6 photos
Likes: 7
Joined Aug 2007
Location: Dubai
     
Jun 04, 2008 09:22 |  #70

cdifoto wrote in post #5657353 (external link)
Ahh yes that's right you're over there in Sun City. It's funny though...British photographers **** about their dreary days but man I'd love it over there. Overcast days are a giant, free softbox.

Exactly, they give you such beautiful colors, gets your Creative mind in gear, Yet living in the sunny part of the world for so long makes you lose your inspiration.

...

Oh look, Pollution "click"


[Adam]
[100D][Nifty Fifty]

  
  LOG IN TO REPLY
cdifoto
Don't get pissy with me
Avatar
34,092 posts
Likes: 48
Joined Dec 2005
     
Jun 04, 2008 09:40 |  #71

20droger wrote in post #5652753 (external link)
Well, if you think capturing the light is hard, try capturing the dark.

Last time I did that I bumped my knee. That shizz hurts.


Did you lose Digital Photo Professional (DPP)? Get it here (external link). Cursing at your worse-than-a-map reflector? Check out this vid! (external link)

  
  LOG IN TO REPLY
Nick_b
Senior Member
Avatar
968 posts
Joined Oct 2006
Location: Ottawa
     
Jun 04, 2008 10:33 |  #72

I rented a 300mm 2.8 IS a while ago here are two pictures taken on the same day of the same car.

Sunny...

IMAGE NOT FOUND
HTTP response: 404 | MIME changed to 'image/gif' | Byte size: ZERO | PHOTOBUCKET ERROR IMAGE


Overcast....

IMAGE NOT FOUND
HTTP response: 404 | MIME changed to 'image/gif' | Byte size: ZERO | PHOTOBUCKET ERROR IMAGE

50D, 2 x 20D, Elan 7E, 18-55mm 3.5-5.6 IS, 30mm 1.4 , 85mm 1.8, 200mm 2.8 II, flash 430EX, 580 EX
Canon G10
Pentax P30, 50mm 2.0

  
  LOG IN TO REPLY
chauncey
Cream of the Crop
Avatar
9,696 posts
Gallery: 1 photo
Likes: 467
Joined Jun 2007
Location: MI/CO
     
Jun 04, 2008 10:42 as a reply to  @ cdifoto's post |  #73

cdiphoto, as much as I like your work, I would argue that accessing lens/camera quality by using downsized images is a less than ideal technique.
I get a whole lot more information by seeing 100% crops.


The things you do for yourself die with you, the things you do for others live forever.
A man's worth should be judged, not when he basks in the sun, but how he faces the storm.

My stuff...http://1x.com/member/c​hauncey43 (external link)

  
  LOG IN TO REPLY
cdifoto
Don't get pissy with me
Avatar
34,092 posts
Likes: 48
Joined Dec 2005
     
Jun 04, 2008 10:55 |  #74

I'll do you one better. Instead of 100% crops, I'll let you see the entire image, even though I despise pixel-peeping. Now you can't say I'm hiding anything. ;)

First one:

www.cdifoto.com/forum/​2008-06-04-0001b.jpg (external link)

Second one:

www.cdifoto.com/forum/​2008-06-04-0002.jpg (external link)


Did you lose Digital Photo Professional (DPP)? Get it here (external link). Cursing at your worse-than-a-map reflector? Check out this vid! (external link)

  
  LOG IN TO REPLY
Adamora
Who said i want a title? :(
Avatar
4,742 posts
Gallery: 6 photos
Likes: 7
Joined Aug 2007
Location: Dubai
     
Jun 04, 2008 10:58 |  #75

cdifoto wrote in post #5657925 (external link)
I'll do you one better. Instead of 100% crops, I'll let you see the entire image. ;)

First one:

www.cdifoto.com/forum/​2008-06-04-0001b.jpg (external link)

Second one:

www.cdifoto.com/forum/​2008-06-04-0002.jpg (external link)

Wow, making the image smaller gives it some awesome sharpness ;D


[Adam]
[100D][Nifty Fifty]

  
  LOG IN TO REPLY
sponsored links (only for non-logged)

4,813 views & 0 likes for this thread, 31 members have posted to it.
So is equipment really a big factor?
FORUMS Community Talk, Chatter & Stuff General Photography Talk 
AAA
x 1600
y 1600

Jump to forum...   •  Rules   •  Forums   •  New posts   •  RTAT   •  'Best of'   •  Gallery   •  Gear   •  Reviews   •  Member list   •  Polls   •  Image rules   •  Search   •  Password reset   •  Home

Not a member yet?
Register to forums
Registered members may log in to forums and access all the features: full search, image upload, follow forums, own gear list and ratings, likes, more forums, private messaging, thread follow, notifications, own gallery, all settings, view hosted photos, own reviews, see more and do more... and all is free. Don't be a stranger - register now and start posting!


COOKIES DISCLAIMER: This website uses cookies to improve your user experience. By using this site, you agree to our use of cookies and to our privacy policy.
Privacy policy and cookie usage info.


POWERED BY AMASS forum software 2.58forum software
version 2.58 /
code and design
by Pekka Saarinen ©
for photography-on-the.net

Latest registered member was a spammer, and banned as such!
2832 guests, 166 members online
Simultaneous users record so far is 15,144, that happened on Nov 22, 2018

Photography-on-the.net Digital Photography Forums is the website for photographers and all who love great photos, camera and post processing techniques, gear talk, discussion and sharing. Professionals, hobbyists, newbies and those who don't even own a camera -- all are welcome regardless of skill, favourite brand, gear, gender or age. Registering and usage is free.