Help buying MF camera

I've decided to buy a MF camera but don't have a lot of money. I'd love a Hasselblad, but it looks like it makes more sense to get a Bronica for way less with a bunch of accessories. Agree?

Also, how much should I care about shooting 6x6 vs 6x45? I like the square format and would prefer to stick with it.

Any camera models people recommend or recommend against? Is there a Mamiya camera that will work one day with their digital backs that I can buy for under $600?

Square is the perfect format for portraits...

I've owned both and Blads are FAR better cameras and Zeiss glass is like L + ....The glass (especially CF) is just amazing.

I just picked up a Bronica ETRSi system from KEH for $220.

I shot with a Bronica ETRs 6 x 4.5 for many years..An exceptional camera..I also owned a Pentax 6 x 7 which I eventually sold because I was using the ETRs more..

6 x 4.5 is more economical than 6 x 6 or 6 x7 and the image quality isn't all that much different, especially when you are doing prints under 20" x 24"..

I posted in your other thread but I really enjoy shooting my Mamiya C330.

I love the 6x6 format and it gives you the option of cropping the negative downto a 6x4.5.
I plan on picking up a 503CX tomorrow, so if you are still looking after this weekend i'll try to tell you how they compare.

thanks for this! Because I'm poor I'm probably going to get a Bronica where I can aftter more then 1 lens and a a few backs vs a hasselblad or Mamiya with only an 80mm and 1 120 back

The prices posted here for Bronica ETR kits are really attractive, but they are "bargain" condition prices when I look at KEH. Thus, I would expect them to have done lots of hard commercial service. If you plan to add your own hard duty cycle to it, you may find there's not much duty left.

Nice kits in better condition cost more. The ETR with the medium zoom, a back, a body, and a prism are still under a grand, and that's cheap by any measure.

I didn't see much selection of separate backs and lenses, however. Remember that Bronica has been out of production for a while now.

Mamiyas are still in production, and that makes them expensive.

The best balance between those extremes might be the Pentax 645. It is not a system camera like the Bronica. It doesn't have interchangeable finders and backs, but they are still outstanding performers with great optics. And they are still in production. A used Pentax kit that has autofocus and a motor drive is still well under a grand in EX condition, and it uses conventional AA batteries.

I also like the square format. There are lots of options that provide it, from old twin-lens reflex cameras to Hasselblads. One advantage is that you can use a 45-degree prism, which is a really comfortable option, since you never have to turn the camera on its side (or, conversely, worry about turning the camera on its side when needed).

The decision to buy a camera with interchangeable backs should not be taken lightly. Even owners of Hasselblads find that they have to maintain the light seals on the backs to prevent light leaks. And cameras that use lens shutters will limit your options for fast lenses.

Another option altogether is a MF rangefinder. The Fuji G-series fixed-lens cameras are just outstanding, and some have zoom lenses. They may look like big point-n-shoots, but they were used by working professionals to get high-end results, and loved for their ease of handling.

Today's prices are amazing. I think of the thousands I have spend on medium-format stuff and how all that is worth only pennies on the dollar now, and I wonder why anyone would buy a new Seagull (or a new Hasselblad). I also wonder why camera manufacturers are still making them. I don't like what those wonderings may portend.

Rick "who thinks 6x7 and bigger makes a real difference compared to 645 even at print sizes smaller than 20x24" Denney

HUH??

I never had problems with light leaks from my blads backs. NEVER. Even after I dropped one. 20 years and never a leak. Where did you get that?

Now the up side is you can have several different emulsions and swap'm out when ever you want. Blads are TANKS. They're built to last and take ALLOT of abuse. I know because I put mine through a ton of abuse.

Yeah, I have three 120 (A12) backs for my 'blad and they are completely indestructible (and idiot-proof). The only way to get a light leak is to take out the darkslide or opening the thing up after detaching the back.

rdenney wrote in post #5673042
The prices posted here for Bronica ETR kits are really attractive, but they are "bargain" condition prices when I look at KEH. Thus, I would expect them to have done lots of hard commercial service. If you plan to add your own hard duty cycle to it, you may find there's not much duty left.

Nice kits in better condition cost more. The ETR with the medium zoom, a back, a body, and a prism are still under a grand, and that's cheap by any measure.

I didn't see much selection of separate backs and lenses, however. Remember that Bronica has been out of production for a while now.

Mamiyas are still in production, and that makes them expensive.

The best balance between those extremes might be the Pentax 645. It is not a system camera like the Bronica. It doesn't have interchangeable finders and backs, but they are still outstanding performers with great optics. And they are still in production. A used Pentax kit that has autofocus and a motor drive is still well under a grand in EX condition, and it uses conventional AA batteries.

I also like the square format. There are lots of options that provide it, from old twin-lens reflex cameras to Hasselblads. One advantage is that you can use a 45-degree prism, which is a really comfortable option, since you never have to turn the camera on its side (or, conversely, worry about turning the camera on its side when needed).

The decision to buy a camera with interchangeable backs should not be taken lightly. Even owners of Hasselblads find that they have to maintain the light seals on the backs to prevent light leaks. And cameras that use lens shutters will limit your options for fast lenses.

Another option altogether is a MF rangefinder. The Fuji G-series fixed-lens cameras are just outstanding, and some have zoom lenses. They may look like big point-n-shoots, but they were used by working professionals to get high-end results, and loved for their ease of handling.

Today's prices are amazing. I think of the thousands I have spend on medium-format stuff and how all that is worth only pennies on the dollar now, and I wonder why anyone would buy a new Seagull (or a new Hasselblad). I also wonder why camera manufacturers are still making them. I don't like what those wonderings may portend.

Rick "who thinks 6x7 and bigger makes a real difference compared to 645 even at print sizes smaller than 20x24" Denney

Aside from the lens, the Bronica I purchased from KEH (piecemeal - body, 120 back, and waistlevel finder) were all in EX condition. The lens was in BGN but was still a steal at $70 or so. So, I paid $275 for the entire kit (I screwed-up with the original order and got a 220 back).

I didn't want to spend a lot of money on a MF system which is why I didn't go with Pentax or Mamiya or even a Rollei (or any other) TLR.

airfrogusmc wrote in post #5673114
[FONT=Arial][SIZE=2]HU​H??

I never had problems with light leaks from my blads backs. NEVER. Even after I dropped one. 20 years and never a leak. Where did you get that?

From the brisk business reported by the local repair dude I talked to in those foil light seals used in the A-12 backs. Second-hand knowledge as I said from the start. Glad your experience has been different.

I'm not arguing that blads can't take a lot of abuse. I'm just suggesting that many available used ALREADY HAVE.

Rick "who passed over about 25 Pentax 6x7 cameras before finding one in really good condition" Denney

No matter what brand of camera, they each have their Achilles heel, and Hasselblad is no exception! Historically the backs on Hassy's have need of work the most often, in terms of reconditioning them after hard usage that pros can subject their equipment to, due to high volume of work. Also, Hassy's are known for need a special tool to help with the lens locked on the body in the recocking mechanism. A removeable back is actually a very complex mechanism due to the need for light tight yet removeable 'box' that can count exposures, provide shutter interlocks if the film slide is left in the way, etc.! A different brand might have focal plane shutter issues, rather than back issues. Or focal plane shutter issues AND back issues!

I bought my first Hasselblad, slightly used, in 1975. I still have it. Regular maintenance is a good idea for any piece of gear getting high usage. The backs advance mechanism gave me the most trouble over the years (frame overlapping), no leaks. I have two bodies, four lenses, and two backs (that still work well). I did have a lens lock onto a body once, I struggled a bit with a small screwdriver and got it off. I bought the special tool for 35 dollars and have never used it in the 20 years since. Most of my stuff looks like it's been through a war because it has, but they operate perfectly. No other system I have been around has better durability. One of the best things about the Blad is strong construction, usually they can be rebuilt and be as good as new. Some exceptions of course, anything will wear out eventually.

Wilt wrote in post #5674598
No matter what brand of camera, they each have their Achilles heel, and Hasselblad is no exception!

Yeah, but the biggest issue on Hasselblads (at least the 500 series) is getting the shutter / lens mount system locked up. This happens particularly often when using extension tubes. Fortunately it's easy to fix, but I freaked out when it happened to me.


Incidentally some of the best deals on medium format can be found on Craigslist. When I lived in Boston I got my Hasselblad 500 c/m, three CT* series Zeiss lenses (50/4, 80/2.8, 150/4), three extension tubes, prism and waist level finders, two A12 backs, lens shades, compendium hood, flash bracket, and Zeiss filter set (including two softars and a starlight) all for $1400.

Wilt wrote in post #5674598
No matter what brand of camera, they each have their Achilles heel, and Hasselblad is no exception! Historically the backs on Hassy's have need of work the most often, in terms of reconditioning them after hard usage that pros can subject their equipment to, due to high volume of work. Also, Hassy's are known for need a special tool to help with the lens locked on the body in the recocking mechanism. A removeable back is actually a very complex mechanism due to the need for light tight yet removeable 'box' that can count exposures, provide shutter interlocks if the film slide is left in the way, etc.! A different brand might have focal plane shutter issues, rather than back issues. Or focal plane shutter issues AND back issues!

Special tool is a slotted screw driver. New lenses are usually very stiff and will freeze up after the shutter release. Take the back off, push open the back two piece screen and recock by turning the screw on the camera that then will recock the lens. When ever I had a brand new lens I would always keep a screw driver in my pocket. After a couple months NO PROBLEM and it only happened once in a great while when the lenses were new.