Should I refund.

engsetr1 wrote in post #5694830
Things are tough right now for a lot of people, myself included. Husband was out on dissability twice, had his leg amputated, finally went back to work and they closed the place and he lost his job, since has had two jobs and lost both of them and we are almost out of umemployement and may lose everything. I don't mean to go on and on, but I guess what I want to say is that when I try and figure out WHY this has happened to me that maybe I am being tought compassion and so I would say yeah give them back the money they may actually need it regardless if they had it one day, as I found out things can change on a dime and yes maybe she is lying to you, but that would be on her conscience not yours!

I agree with this... It would be different if she booked the wedding 6 months out and its now 2 weeks until the wedding, but if she just booked and you havent officially turned away business for that day, then give it back...Only makes you look better and if this if this is true, when things turn around, she may just hire you again...

I'm completely with Tim on this one.

If somebody were to call the day before the wedding with the same story, I'd be inclined to feel it was a complete fabrication and they just found somebody else. But September is still more or less far enough away that you can get another booking in that slot, so hopefully this did not cost you another booking.

I'm all for being a good samaritan when people fall on rough times, so long as they're being honest about the circumstances. It's rare that I require 100% this far in advance - usually a "serious" deposit - so that $1K could represent a huge chunk to their financial well-being.

Bottom line it's a personal decision.

There are certainly written contractual statements that protect and entitle you to keep everything. But then there are those intangible ethical and human contracts that we abide in our daily lives. These are called doing the right thing. Personally I would give it all back, this early in the game..... it wouldn't affect my livelihood. But that's just me, and I know I'll feel good about helping somebody out who had a run of bad luck.

tim wrote in post #5694556
This is very much personal choice, whether you value the customer relations aspect or the money in your pocket. Personally i'd give back some or all of their retainer, even though the contract says I don't have to. I'd rather sleep well at night, even if they aren't being entirely honest.

Absolutely - as long as it doesn't put you in the hole in any way, I've always felt that taking the high road is one way of paying things forward in the greater scheme of things. And word is bound to get out that you are an honorable and generous person with whom to do business.

tinkan wrote in post #5694621
If, as a result of entering this contract, you're going to be out of pocket in any way then stick to the terms of the contract. If it isn't going to cost you anything (e.g lost bookings) then, even if only for the sake of your reputation, you can afford to be generous.

engsetr1 wrote in post #5694830
Things are tough right now for a lot of people, myself included. Husband was out on dissability twice, had his leg amputated, finally went back to work and they closed the place and he lost his job, since has had two jobs and lost both of them and we are almost out of umemployement and may lose everything. I don't mean to go on and on, but I guess what I want to say is that when I try and figure out WHY this has happened to me that maybe I am being tought compassion and so I would say yeah give them back the money they may actually need it regardless if they had it one day, as I found out things can change on a dime and yes maybe she is lying to you, but that would be on her conscience not yours!

I don't think that you really have it that hard. Look at what you have and not what you do not. You at least have a camera I am guessing and you have internet and a computer. That is a lot more than a lot of other people.

Just stick to the contract and if you book the day with some one else give back what you feel like you should. That is why you got a contract.

I'd refund everything except your out of pocket expenses to that point (meeting them for a consultation, gas, travel costs, and whatever misc expenses you encountered prior to this).

So if all your misc expenses cost you $50.00, tell her you can refund the $950.00. I doubt she'd quibble over $50.00. You could eat that cost, but that's hardly fair to you either, even it if is "just" $50.00.

BEFORE YOU GIVE BACK ANY MONEY!

Wait for that check to clear the bank. I would give it at least 10 business days. The last thing you want is to return the cash only for their check to bounce and then you're out $1000.

I don't shoot wedding anymore but when I did I had a bride break up with her fiancé and few months before the wedding. I check with the hotel to see if they cancelled there also. They had, I refunded all of her money. She got married a couple years later and she came right back to me and I got her sister and one of her friends weddings all at higher rates than I had when she had booked. I was the only one that did that. Hotel kept her deposit, video kept the deposited, orchestra kept the deposited and none of those folks were at any of the other three weddings I got from the good will. I didn't intend to ever see her again but I really think if you always take the high road it will pay off in dividends way beyond what you would think at the time.
This is a personal decision. Your situation is much different but I think I would still refund. Whos to say if she'll go to another photographer but hey if your busy and don't book the day ENJOY the Saturday off. Its just one wedding there are allot more out there and word does get around. More than you'd ever think.

How about giving them half, and saying you will refund the rest if you can fill that date? I know I have seen terms like that for small hotels or B&B places, and the client will see where you are coming from and should understand the situation.

Even though I'm inclined to be generous and give the money back, less any expenses, Andrew makes an excellent point here. With all the scams going on these days you can never be too sure about checks. This is likely an honest person, but It costs nothing to wait the sensible 10 business days.

Good common sense advice Andrew.

OdiN1701 wrote in post #5695303
BEFORE YOU GIVE BACK ANY MONEY!

Wait for that check to clear the bank. I would give it at least 10 business days. The last thing you want is to return the cash only for their check to bounce and then you're out $1000.

sapearl wrote in post #5695625
Even though I'm inclined to be generous and give the money back, less any expenses, Andrew makes an excellent point here. With all the scams going on these days you can never be too sure about checks. This is likely an honest person, but It costs nothing to wait the sensible 10 business days.

Good common sense advice Andrew.

Oh yeah make sure the check clears before refunding anything if thats what you decide.

sapearl wrote in post #5695625
Even though I'm inclined to be generous and give the money back, less any expenses, Andrew makes an excellent point here. With all the scams going on these days you can never be too sure about checks. This is likely an honest person, but It costs nothing to wait the sensible 10 business days.

Good common sense advice Andrew.

Yeah - I am not very trusting these days with issues involving money. Just take some due diligence and you'll usually be fine. No honest person would be upset at you waiting for a check to clear - they would understand. If they get really upset and try to pressure you - you'd have to wonder why.

Now - one thing that I do for clients who pay me with checks. If at all possible I go to the bank the check is drawn on, and cash it at that branch. They don't have my account information, nor do they need it. You will know immediately if the funds are available - if they aren't the bank won't honor the check. This way there is no way that they can do the typical "oops - bounced check, we're taking it back out of your account plus an extra $25" thing. They will take down your ID information, but that's just in case you're trying to forge a check or something.

Do the right thing - but also don't let doing the right thing cloud your better business judgement when it comes to monetary issues. People are out there who will use everything they have (including making you feel bad) in order to screw you over. Not saying this is in any way the case here - but just think through things always!

How about this, just thinking outside the box. Give her 50% once your happy the cheque clears, then say "you understand her unusual circumstances and that you will refund the rest on proof that husband has lost job", i.e. P45 or what ever equivalent paper work you get when you leave/lose your job in your country. Some sort of IRS proof of contributions made with said company!

I was going to just let this pass, but I can't. Yes I do have it better than a lot of people, I have my health and I have some nice things including camera equipment and I am very thankful for what I do have. Try and have the possiblity of not having a roof over your head and no idea where you might go if you lose your home. Maybe YOU need to learn some compassion!

I understand where you're coming from on this, and I appreciate what you are trying to accomplish...... but you don't really want to complicate this more than necessary. Not only that, but assuming that he really has lost his job this could be rubbing the salt in the wound.

My attitude is to be either totally generous..... or not at all. Just my additional .02.

sm1rf wrote in post #5695770
How about this, just thinking outside the box. Give her 50% once your happy the cheque clears, then say "you understand her unusual circumstances and that you will refund the rest on proof that husband has lost job", i.e. P45 or what ever equivalent paper work you get when you leave/lose your job in your country. Some sort of IRS proof of contributions made with said company!

I'm not sure if this has been said, but I would refund the entire amount and let them know that you are being a nice, fair person. Not to toot your own horn, but it's just good business. If you decide to refund the entire amount, just tell them something like, "While we do have a contract stating that the 50% is a non-refundable deposit, I completely understand falling on hard times and therefore will refund the entire amount, no questions asked. All I ask is that you please keep me in mind for your future photography needs. Best of luck to you during these hard times."

Of course that "10 business days wait" that has been mentioned is an excellent idea. Never can be too safe these days!!