ETTL or Manual Mode ???

I watched the blue crane video and they advocate the use of ETTL for flash mode and really knock using manual mode.

So I watch another video by smarter photography. They say ETTL is not the way to go and it is not consistant is exposures.

How do you use your 430 or 580.. ETTL or Manual?

Off-camera flash --> manual
On-camera flash --> mostly (but not always) E-TTL

scorpio_e wrote in post #5708690
How do you use your 430 or 580.. ETTL or Manual?

It totally depends on the shoot...

If I have time I will go manual. However, chasing people through multiple rooms, with different height ceilings and ambient room light, and different subject distances... well I use ETTL then

I mostly use ETTL b/c I like to mix flash w/ ambient light most of the time I use flash, and it does a pretty good job in that regard.

I use ETTL in exterior shots for fill-in (and still do a little manual tweaking), and in general when I feel no need to go beyond what ETTL can do, for example, when covering an event. If I need to move in a different direction, then I'll go manual. Also, in a studio shot, I'll use manual because I want to have detailed control of what's going on.

Manual flash, with a meter, is more consistent and predictable. It is also more time-consuming and requires getting the meter in the subject's position. This is not always practical, or even possible.

Automatic flash metering is for those situations where manual flash isn't practical. Automatic flash metering has been around for 40 years in one form or another. E-TTL is just the latest form.

pcunite wrote in post #5708952
It totally depends on the shoot...

If I have time I will go manual. However, chasing people through multiple rooms, with different height ceilings and ambient room light, and different subject distances... well I use ETTL then

Curtis N wrote in post #5709197
Manual flash, with a meter, is more consistent and predictable. It is also more time-consuming and requires getting the meter in the subject's position. This is not always practical, or even possible.

Automatic flash metering is for those situations where manual flash isn't practical. Automatic flash metering has been around for 40 years in one form or another. E-TTL is just the latest form.

+1

Just like all the other features of a camera (or any other tool, for that matter), you use what fits the job at hand the best.

Curtis N wrote in post #5709197
Manual flash, with a meter, is more consistent and predictable. It is also more time-consuming and requires getting the meter in the subject's position. This is not always practical, or even possible.

Automatic flash metering is for those situations where manual flash isn't practical. Automatic flash metering has been around for 40 years in one form or another. E-TTL is just the latest form.

As usual, Curtis, I agree with all you have said.

On caveat, however....

While you need a meter to do manual flash, it does not, necessarily, have to be a separate meter (from the excellent one in the camera) and you do not need to get it in the "subject's position".

If you are shooting RAW, you main focus is to get the highlights corrects....that is, "expose to the right"....without blowing out the highlights.

This can be done with simply a white terry cloth towel and a few test shots.

Chuck Gardner explains this very well.

Here.... http://super.nova.org …stem/WhiteTowel​Method.pdf

With a follow up, here... http://super.nova.org/​DPR/Equipment/SpotMete​r.html

One of his FM forum post, explains it in quite simple terms:

"...For digital correct exposure of textured highlight detail is critical. Get those right and everything else falls into place, at least down to the end of the range your camera can record.

Get a white terry wash cloth or towel, or any white fabric with texture visible in the camera LCD playback. It will become your "canary in the coal mine" for correct exposure by just looking at it in the playback. When you see it looks white, still has texture and is not blacked out in the overexposure warning you'll know at a glance it and everything next to it is perfectly exposed. Simple no? It provides a standard frame of reference, both visual via the texture -- which is why a towel not a card is used -- and via the simplest of all exposure indicators on the camera, the overexposure warning.

The histogram is useful for gauging underexposure via the gap on the right, but not for overexposure. The OEW shows you exactly where in the image the highlights are clipping. Used to together with a standard highlight reference like the towel it is very easy to get correct exposure in two shots: Test, evaluate, adjust, perfect exposure.

Have your portrait subject hold it crumpled for a bit of shadow detail, next to their face. Metering mode really isn't important. I just leave my camera on evaluative. Point the camera an shoot a test shot, M or Av, doesn't really matter, but if you use Av make the size of the towel small so as not to influence exposure later when its not in the shot.

Look at the file in the playback, if the towel is blacked out (clipped highlights) back off the exposure. If there's no part of the towel blacked out increase exposure until the brightest parts -- the specular reflections - black out. Since a RAW file has more highlight headroom than the dinky thumbnail used for the playback that will usually indicate the point where exposure is perfect..."

jrsforums wrote in post #5710231
This can be done with simply a white terry cloth towel and a few test shots.

Before I bought my meter, I carried a new white t-shirt in the case with my lighting gear. I would drape it over my subject and adjust to get the histogram spike where I wanted. With a bit of practice, it worked well.

Using a meter is quicker, helps me get the desired balance between ambient light and flash, and seems to be more... well... professional.

Curtis N wrote in post #5710392
Before I bought my meter, I carried a new white t-shirt in the case with my lighting gear. I would drape it over my subject and adjust to get the histogram spike where I wanted. With a bit of practice, it worked well.

My intent of posting it was just to give others an inexpensive method that works well....as you did before getting a meter.

Using a meter is quicker, helps me get the desired balance between ambient light and flash, and seems to be more... well... professional.

Agreed...quicker, etc. Just a bit difficult if you are handholding So...as Leo said, "...you use what fits the job at hand..."

Curtis N wrote in post #5710392
Before I bought my meter, I carried a new white t-shirt in the case with my lighting gear. I would drape it over my subject and adjust to get the histogram spike where I wanted. With a bit of practice, it worked well.

Using a meter is quicker, helps me get the desired balance between ambient light and flash, and seems to be more... well... professional.

Admit it, Curtis. The only reason you decided to get the meter was because your white shirt was turning gray and throwing your exposure off.

I am working very hard to create repeatable results and studying everyday after work. I continue to have one stinky little issue that perhaps you can share a suggestion for?
When I shoot a sunset or brightly lit scene with a subject in the foreground, it is pretty straight forward for me. Expose for the background, drop in my subject and adjust the flash.

But when I shoot in front of the bushes say at 7pm when the ambient light isn’t a dramatic difference from the subject, I have a hard time selecting the proper exposure / flash combination.
It is as if the exposure is already so close the flash offers no help, 1:3 ratio doesn’t do anything to subject shadows. Unless I drop exposure to where background goes dark, then I have control over subject lighting.
It is driving me crazy. It seems like such a simple thing to resolve, but my many tests are telling me otherwise. I want to shoot manual on camera, ETTL on flash.

I am shooting 40D with on camera flash turned off and off camera flash 1:3 ratio, radio poppers, 580 EX. Tried it with on camera flash on too, and got too much light on subject.

As a follow up, would love a suggestion on best way to use the two 580ex flashes to shoot a large group (16) family portrait.
Plan on using 40D, 17-85mm IS lens.

Downing32 wrote in post #5744428
I am shooting 40D with on camera flash turned off and off camera flash 1:3 ratio,

The ratio you set is irrelevant if you turn off the master. You can't have a ratio without two light sources.

What you need to be thinking about is the flash/ambient ratio. And you'll need to underexpose the ambient a little bit in order to add light without overexposing your subject.

Downing32 wrote in post #5744428
I am working very hard to create repeatable results and studying everyday after work. I continue to have one stinky little issue that perhaps you can share a suggestion for?
When I shoot a sunset or brightly lit scene with a subject in the foreground, it is pretty straight forward for me. Expose for the background, drop in my subject and adjust the flash.

But when I shoot in front of the bushes say at 7pm when the ambient light isn’t a dramatic difference from the subject, I have a hard time selecting the proper exposure / flash combination.
It is as if the exposure is already so close the flash offers no help, 1:3 ratio doesn’t do anything to subject shadows. Unless I drop exposure to where background goes dark, then I have control over subject lighting.
It is driving me crazy. It seems like such a simple thing to resolve, but my many tests are telling me otherwise. I want to shoot manual on camera, ETTL on flash.

I am shooting 40D with on camera flash turned off and off camera flash 1:3 ratio, radio poppers, 580 EX. Tried it with on camera flash on too, and got too much light on subject.

As a follow up, would love a suggestion on best way to use the two 580ex flashes to shoot a large group (16) family portrait.
Plan on using 40D, 17-85mm IS lens.

What group is the off-camera slave set to? A or B? If it's set to B, that ratio is not going to do anything for you. It should be set to A.

But Curtis is right on with his comment about you wanting an ambient to flash ratio, not a flash to flash ratio.

PacAce wrote in post #5744936
What group is the off-camera slave set to? A or B? If it's set to B, that ratio is not going to do anything for you. It should be set to A.

But Curtis is right on with his comment about you wanting an ambient to flash ratio, not a flash to flash ratio.

Thank you both for replying. A few things. All the other shots I am doing are working great the way it is set up, A:B with the slave being B. And when I dropped the exposure down to lose ambient background exposure the system worked just fine. I just thought I ought to be able to have the background and put a shadow on the subject too.

I think giving up on the perfect ambient light exposure IS probably the answer because the scene is just too similar to have the background AND a nice shadow fill.

As far as the slave ratio 1:3 not doing anything. I did a test with the camera flash turned off, If you use the ratio choice it has the same impact as using FEC on the master (Which if turned to off effects the slave)

I sure welcome any other comments or suggestions. I am trying to get ready to shoot my own kids wedding and don;t want to screw it up.

Remember to add any suggestions on how to light that group of 16 with an on camera and off camera pair of 580'S.

Thanks Again!