Brisbane POTN Coffee Club Rev. 4

Kubuntu is as broken as a quadraplegic's spine (sorry for the bad analogy, best I could think of on the fly). Not intending any disrespect to those in such a medical condition either, just simply an analogy.

Better to really use Debian proper and install KDE from there during the installer, then you don't get the butchered kde packages that Kubuntu offers. The whole thing is supposedly about choice, but if you install Ubuntu, then you get Gnome rammed down your throat (no option to install anything else at install point). If Ubuntu was a real distribution, they'd offer a damn well DVD, with Gnome *and* KDE as options during install. Many of the Ubuntu lovers™ are the same that are pushing Linux as having choice. I go "huh?", how is forcing people to ONLY have the option to install Gnome (which by all servers has less users on the desktop base using it than KDE), choice?

True, I don't have to use Ubuntu, and probably shouldn't since I have a strong distrust of Mark Shuttleworth's ulterior motives.

I knew it was a bad idea to give Ubuntu a fair go and try it...should have stuck with Debian, then I wouldn't have gotten so badly ired, and annoyed you fine folks with my ranting lol...

Balus - totally agree with you. Everyone @ my work loves Ubuntu, they think it's the best thing since sliced bread, I even hear a few "I hate KDE" comments from them. I can't wait for KDE 4 to settle down and have more applications packaged/ported to it/qt4, as well as the bugs/UI issues being ironed out. KDE isn't perfect, but it's a helluva lot better than Gnome's offering to be honest.

I've been using Linux on/off since Redhat 5.2, circa 97. I used to use Gnome in preference to KDE until circa Gnome 1.4 or so, when they really started ballsing things up. Developing on Gnome is by all accounts a mess, that should pretty much give you a solid warning about it

Dave

troypiggo wrote in post #5766906
G'day Dave,

At the risk of inflaming you more, can I ask a dumb question?

You mention Ubuntu is Gnome based and they're ramming it (Gnome) down your throat. Doesn't Kubuntu provide the KDE GUI for Ubuntu? Wasn't sure why you installed Ubuntu knowing about the Gnome thing when Kubuntu is there. I've never used it, mind you. In fact don't use Ubuntu's Gnome GUI either. Only commandline on my Ubuntu servers.

As for the sudo thing, I use that extensively from the commandline. Not sure how the GUI's handle it. Never had a problem with it in bash. Once the server is set up, don't tend to need either command other than maintenance or upgrades.

No worries. As I said, I haven't used linux GUI's for some time. Didn't realise Kubuntu was garbage. Just assumed it was the KDE-users' Ubuntu distro of choice.

Should mention that last time I did use linux GUI - I didn't like Gnome myself, and much preferred KDE. But seemed pretty unstable at the time. IIRC it was around the early days of KDE2, and KDE3 was coming out.

I don't know Mark Shuttleworth, or his "ulterior motives".

dpastern wrote in post #5767429
Kubuntu is as broken as a quadraplegic's spine (sorry for the bad analogy, best I could think of on the fly). Not intending any disrespect to those in such a medical condition either, just simply an analogy.

Better to really use Debian proper and install KDE from there during the installer, then you don't get the butchered kde packages that Kubuntu offers. The whole thing is supposedly about choice, but if you install Ubuntu, then you get Gnome rammed down your throat (no option to install anything else at install point). If Ubuntu was a real distribution, they'd offer a damn well DVD, with Gnome *and* KDE as options during install. Many of the Ubuntu lovers™ are the same that are pushing Linux as having choice. I go "huh?", how is forcing people to ONLY have the option to install Gnome (which by all servers has less users on the desktop base using it than KDE), choice?

True, I don't have to use Ubuntu, and probably shouldn't since I have a strong distrust of Mark Shuttleworth's ulterior motives.

I knew it was a bad idea to give Ubuntu a fair go and try it...should have stuck with Debian, then I wouldn't have gotten so badly ired, and annoyed you fine folks with my ranting lol...

I just don't trust Ubuntu, haven't since it was released. Ubuntu has done more damage to the Linux desktop than anything else that I can remember. It has killed off many a fine distribution, including my favourite, Libranet.

Libranet 3 was the *best* distribution I've ever used. It's lack of sales was due to the developer (Tal Danzig) over pricing it, and I did privately warn him about the pricing, sadly, he did not listen to me. Ubuntu came along, and was a freebie, and people just clung to it like a fly to s*it (analogy deliberate). It had a custom installer that was the equal of anything else, nice GUI based utilities for newbies, excellent support, and excellent user forums. If Tal's father had lived to see Libranet 3 released (he died during beta testing due to Cancer), I think things would have been different. I'm still shorting over it all, all these years later. Many Ubuntu users and biased reviewers attacked Libranet unfairly, and it still angers me. I'm like an Elephant - I have a long memory, and I hold grudges a long time as well.

Anyways, I've had my fill of Linux this weekend, I'll wipe Ubuntu next weekend and put Debian on the system.

Dave

dpastern wrote in post #5767416
My apologies, thought you were referring me to being an elitist. I've had many others say that about my PC users thoughts and I'm well and truly sick of it and get a bit heated about it all. It's time knowledgeable users like myself stopped helping the newbies, let them fend for themselves and get off their bums and learn. By not getting them to do that, you're doing them a disservice in the long run I think, by teaching them to stay dumb and not learn and take some responsibility for running their PC systems properly.

Dave

Hey that's how we learnt! I've been doing IT for 25+ years now, I've broken a few things, made mistakes etc., but learnt from every one of them. I've also trained technicians and one that wants to listen is a rare beast indeed. Most of the younger techs nowadays want to look for the most complex solution to a problem just to make them look intelligent, it usually fails

/end rant

dpastern wrote in post #5767429
I've been using Linux on/off since Redhat 5.2, circa 97. I used to use Gnome in preference to KDE until circa Gnome 1.4 or so, when they really started ballsing things up. Developing on Gnome is by all accounts a mess, that should pretty much give you a solid warning about it

Dave

I started supporting Xenix286 oh so many years ago before LANs became widespread.

balus wrote in post #5767646
Hey that's how we learnt! I've been doing IT for 25+ years now, I've broken a few things, made mistakes etc., but learnt from every one of them. I've also trained technicians and one that wants to listen is a rare beast indeed. Most of the younger techs nowadays want to look for the most complex solution to a problem just to make them look intelligent, it usually fails

/end rant

Yes, true, I see it all the time. I might lack knowledge, but I tend to learn quick, make few mistakes, and rarely make the same mistake once. I'm relatively new to networking/dns/apache, and have been doing a reasonably good job @ work. I'm human, I make mistakes, and when I make them I admit it. It's all part of the learning process. Of course, someone has been ****ing up DNS entries @ work, and they're blaming me, and it was sure as hell *not* me. I made no short points in letting them know what I thought of them blaming me as well, don't think it went down well.

I'm not particularly happy with the job anymore, it seems they want you to be 100% perfect all the time, even when you're learning. Trying to learn on the job, with a shedload of calls coming in, and no one to teach you/show you doesn't help.

I'm not popular @ work, I suspect cos I'm not "one of the lads" and I really couldn't give a **** what they think of me to be honest. I do the job, do it well and that's all that should really matter, but these days it's how much you brown nose that matters, not how good a job you do. All these kids coming out of uni know SFA, think they know it all, and generally brown nose enough to get the boss liking them. I must just be old school...

I know I must sound like an elitist **** to some, but the best way to learn is to do. Some hand holding is nice, but it's always best imho to make a few mistakes, learn from them and improve. Ubuntu is dumbing Linux down so much that the same people who use Windows and screw things up are now moving to Linux cos they're too tight to pay for licenses for Windows. They don't care about FSF or the GPL, they just want free (as in cost) software. They don't care if they screw up their systems.

One of our customers at work was using Fedora 8 for a server! It got cracked, probably some form of sql injection and they just like...let's change the password and she'll be right! A day later, machine's been compromised again. What do they do? Simply change the password...the machine should have been immediately removed off the network as soon as the compromise was found, and forensics done to find out how it was compromised. Said system hadn't been updated in a while as well, so security patches were missing. Oh, and the beauty of it all, they were running X. ffs, things like this really $hit me. Basic stuff...

Dave

On a totally different subject here are some shots from the weekend. I really liked the colours on the first but think the shot would be better with a different angle, ie from the top a bit more

No.1 Cotton Harlequin Bug

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oooo, nice

Greg_C wrote in post #5768169
On a totally different subject here are some shots from the weekend. I really liked the colours on the first but think the shot would be better with a different angle, ie from the top a bit more

No.1 Cotton Harlequin Bug


No.2 Waiting in Ambush.

What an interesting bug. See what you mean about the angle - but I'd be pretty happy to get one like yours

Greg_C wrote in post #5768169
On a totally different subject here are some shots from the weekend. I really liked the colours on the first but think the shot would be better with a different angle, ie from the top a bit more

No.1 Cotton Harlequin Bug

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No.2 Waiting in Ambush.

Be over the moon If I could get shots like these
Very nice

Pity about #1 Greg - would have been nice to have gotten a shot from a bit more front on and from the top, but alas, sometimes we can only get what we get. I quite like #2, very similar to a shot I took about a year ago. Nice lighting in both.

Dave

Greg_C wrote in post #5768169
On a totally different subject here are some shots from the weekend. I really liked the colours on the first but think the shot would be better with a different angle, ie from the top a bit more

Thanks for the comments guys, the Cotton Harlequin Bugs are easily found on the Hibiscus plants there. These are the males, the females are bright orange.

wow Greg

really loving the macros you are presenting

Pretty looking things, now only if I knew what a Hibiscus plant looked like

Dave

Thanks John

One of these Dave:p Quite a lot of buds on them at the moment, so there should be plenty of blooms in a week or so.

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