HOW Close is too close??

Being a firefighter/paramedic, the most important thing is to stay out of the way of emergecny operations. If someone needs you to move in order to effect some kind of operation then kindly do so...other than that snap away at fires as far as I'm concerned.

Cripes ifonline! I just noticed you're down the road from me! I'll slow down, ok? I'm just trying to get to Cracker Barrel before the rush! LOL

Follow a little common sense. If there are barriers, do not cross them without express permission. If there are lives at risk, stay out of the way so the emergency personnel can do their job.

Having said that, my opinion is that a lot of what you can do when there are no barriers in place really depends on how relaxed your local emergency personnel are, and how severe the incident is. I've walked right up to the aftermaths of fires and firemen doing their thing and grabbed some shots without a question or a look. Some firemen have even moved out of my way if they thought they were blocking one of my shots. I'm in a small rural community and this was the aftermath like I said, and I did not get in anyone's way so they pretty much left me alone. Part of it could be that I didn't act like an ambulance chaser and simply walked around the site taking photos as if I belonged there.

ifonline wrote in post #5742027
All too often it is seen as us (law enforcement) versus them (the media), when in reality we need to be working together.

I agree, and it is good to hear it from a law enforcment point of view, but you must admit not all law enforcment officers are as nice and kind as they could be. But that could also be because of some previous incidents of photographers or something...or they just having a bad day.

BermyFunk wrote in post #5744916
I agree, and it is good to hear it from a law enforcment point of view, but you must admit not all law enforcment officers are as nice and kind as they could be. But that could also be because of some previous incidents of photographers or something...or they just having a bad day.

If you had to deal with half the bad apples some of our law enforcement deal with day in and day out, I doubt you'd be in the mood to be "nice" to a news crew or photographer. Seeing things from their perspective will likely change yours.

Nooblet wrote in post #5745714
If you had to deal with half the bad apples some of our law enforcement deal with day in and day out, I doubt you'd be in the mood to be "nice" to a news crew or photographer. Seeing things from their perspective will likely change yours.

I don't doubt it. I have no trouble believing that the vast majority of photographers at such scenes are pros for local media and, with their jobs on the line, have no trouble being super pushy and jerky trying to get that best shot.

jonnythan wrote in post #5741962
Great posts, ifonline. Thanks.

great writeup

Shutterbug Doug wrote in post #5743198
Cripes ifonline! I just noticed you're down the road from me! I'll slow down, ok? I'm just trying to get to Cracker Barrel before the rush! LOL

Hm... what kind of car do you drive? Eh... forget it. I'll likely be passing you trying to beat you to Cracker Barrel. That place is awesome!

BermyFunk wrote in post #5744916
I agree, and it is good to hear it from a law enforcment point of view, but you must admit not all law enforcment officers are as nice and kind as they could be. But that could also be because of some previous incidents of photographers or something...or they just having a bad day.

Very true, and I won't pretend that I haven't had my days (as anyone else in any other business has too). And quite honestly, there are those in law enforcement that are simply jerks and nothing more. They are the ones that don't need to be doing the job at all. There are jerks everywhere, though, not just law enforcement. I can think of a few doctors I've met that were less than pleasant to deal with!

Nooblet wrote in post #5745714
If you had to deal with half the bad apples some of our law enforcement deal with day in and day out, I doubt you'd be in the mood to be "nice" to a news crew or photographer. Seeing things from their perspective will likely change yours.

It's tough... I have seen more than I care to share, and yet I have to remember, every day, that I am likely headed to a call and meeting someone who has never interacted with law enforcement before. I have to remember that they aren't responsible for the junk I just dealt with 10 minutes ago. Some of us can handle that disconnection better than others, but we are all human and have emotions too, and even the best at this job break down once in a while. It's all to often that people forget that we too can suffer because of our job... we aren't robots.

I just want to say that I appreciate the OP's question, and I appreciate the civil responses here. This thread has been a refreshing change from feeling like I have to constantly defend myself (not here, just in general).

narlus wrote in post #5745816
great writeup

Thank you.

ifonline wrote in post #5741355
If you feel you have been violated or treated unfairly, you should (maybe even must) report your concern to the law enforcement agency that had you leave. I am not under any circumstance suggesting that someone's rights to be in a public place should be violated, but I am suggesting that there is a better place to register your complaint than on the scene of a crime.

I have a problem with this line of thinking. In general you're saying
1) the photographer has a right to be there
2) the officer thinks he doesn't, and tells him to leave
3) the photographer leaves, and makes a complaint later

Even if a 3rd party (the officer's supervisor?) later agrees that the photographer had a right to be there, it's too late. With an emergency situation, the photographer can't go back and get the same shot later.

I'm not familiar with the ins and outs of this scenario and you're certainly more experienced than me in this regard, but when you've got two parties disagreeing on a time-sensitive matter, and you always favor one party... well, I just don't like the sound of it.

RowdyReptile wrote in post #5746295
I have a problem with this line of thinking. In general you're saying
1) the photographer has a right to be there
2) the officer thinks he doesn't, and tells him to leave
3) the photographer leaves, and makes a complaint later

Even if a 3rd party (the officer's supervisor?) later agrees that the photographer had a right to be there, it's too late. With an emergency situation, the photographer can't go back and get the same shot later.

I'm not familiar with the ins and outs of this scenario and you're certainly more experienced than me in this regard, but when you've got two parties disagreeing on a time-sensitive matter, and you always favor one party... well, I just don't like the sound of it.

Well, when one person's side is a civilian saying "I want to take pictures" and the other person's side is a public safety officer acting in an official role saying "your presence in this spot is potentially harmful and dangerous and you must leave" the choice is kinda obvious.

IMO, if you're at the scene of a crime or accident and a police officer, fireman, or rescue worker is telling you that you must vacate the area, you are obligated to do so - and if you feel you were forced to do so unfairly, you should take up the complaint with appropriate lawful channels afterward.

RowdyReptile wrote in post #5746295
I have a problem with this line of thinking. In general you're saying
1) the photographer has a right to be there
2) the officer thinks he doesn't, and tells him to leave
3) the photographer leaves, and makes a complaint later

Even if a 3rd party (the officer's supervisor?) later agrees that the photographer had a right to be there, it's too late. With an emergency situation, the photographer can't go back and get the same shot later.

I'm not familiar with the ins and outs of this scenario and you're certainly more experienced than me in this regard, but when you've got two parties disagreeing on a time-sensitive matter, and you always favor one party... well, I just don't like the sound of it.

Look at it this way...this is a variation on the theme, "The boss isn't always right, but he is always the boss!" Until something makes YOU his boss, you listen to him, not the other way around sometimes. If that is hard to swallow, remember that in some tribal societies, the boss could have your head or your nuts handed to him on a plate, if he so desired. Better to leave, than to lose your nuts.

Wilt wrote in post #5746359
Better to leave, than to lose your nuts.

But...I AM nuts! How can I lose myself?

I think a lot depends on the officers that are on scene as well. Of course as others said you can't cross a police line/tape.

But with this topic I figured I would share my experience with this kind of thing.

I was in Downtown Los Angeles one evening for the purpose of taking night shots of the downtown skyscrapers. On my way to the first location, I came across a car fire. The street was blocked off by police waiting for the fire Dept. to arrive.

So I pulled over and got out my camera and started taking some pics. I was about 50-60 ft. maybe from the police cars that were surrounding the car fire. After clicking about 15 shots, a LAPD officer started towards me. I stayed where I was and to my surprise, he is also a hobby-photog. He says to me "You can get closer if you want, just stay a few yards back". LOL..

Anyway, we had a nice long discussion about my camera as he wanted to get a dSLR and was really a cool guy about the whole thing.

The bummer is, I had a PC crash about 2-3 days after I took em and lost all the RAW files. The only ones I have left are a handful of the resized/cropped ones I posted at Photobucket so he could see them.

Ohh, and at one point I heard one officer telling the guy I was talking to that the owner of the car had told him he was "Working on the car stereo earlier that day, maybe he crossed some wires?"

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