Banned!!! Maybe, Maybe not.

I decided to go to the local baseball fields a few weeks ago and shoot action shots and offer prints online. So I have shot about 6 games so far and passed out a few business cards. Well, there is a local pro studio that has a contract with the ball field that gives them exclusive rights to shoot team shots and individual shots (for use in memory mates, etc.). They do not shoot any action photography.

The pro guys were out there the other day doing team pictures and saw me standing on the field, waiting for the game to start. They called the Exchange Club Board Members and raised lots of hell, saying they want me banned from shooting out there. So, tonight after the games, one of the board members came up to me (a coworker of mine) and said "I'm sick of listening to all this mess about you taking pictures out here. I'm calling a board meeting tomorrow at lunch and we'll vote on it." He even asked me if I'd be willing to bid against the pro studio next year for team shots. I said "no, I am not here to fight people, or take away from their profession. I only want to shoot action photos." He said "ok, we'll vote tomorrow".

I have had so many parents tell me that they are so happy that I was capturing their son stealing 2nd base. The parents are all for me being there.... but the pro studio is mad. I plan to show up at the board meeting tomorrow, just to introduce myself, and ask that they please view this from the standpoint of the parents. How about: "If you guys ask me to leave, I'll leave. But who's gonna shoot those little boys sliding into home plate? It's all about the memories, right?"

Just wanted to see what you all think about this.
I'll post again tomorrow after I get "Voted On".

UPDATE!!!!!!!!
Meeting is over. I received the following email from a board member and your thoughts are welcomed:

Today’s meeting was a step in documenting everything. The board agreed that Lambs still and team pictures verbal agreement was fulfilled. We have scheduled a meeting to reassure Lambs, our long term business partner, that our verbal agreement was fulfilled. At this time we will ask Lambs photography their ideas for next years ball season.

Action shots, baseball cards, and other memorabilia are now becoming a part of the lifestyle at the park. We need to gather more information and find a path that is good for the Exchange Club and the community. We discussed having bids for the team photos next year and on field passes for action photos that are intended for sale. These passes would be issued to professionals only. These are ideas and are not finalized. If you would like, you could offer ideas to the Exchange Club for the ball season next year as well.

With four days of games left in the season, the exchange club would like for you to not sell any photos from the park. You can take pictures, but do not step into the playing field. Hopefully, you will view this as a victory because you continue to have the opportunity to fulfill your passion by taking youth sports photos and advertise for next year.

I have attached two other sites at the bottom of this email that will be contacted by our lawyer, which is attached to this email. Richard will notify these individual sites and request them to stop selling exchange club pictures immediately. I do not want you to feel as you are singled out. The Exchange Club is very interested in generating revenue for the park and adding to lasting memories for the community and look forward to you being a part of next year’s ball program. <end>

Can they legally make me remove my action shots from my website and tell me that I cannot sell them?

Is this not sort of the same as selling pizza at the game when the company that has the food contract for the game sells hot dogs?

A family only has so much money they spend on their kids photos. If they buy yours, they just might not buy the team photos.

We have a deal with the league. I shoot for free and only to my team's parents. I give them a DVD of all the images I took of action during the year. The pros only take team photos and individual shots. I don't sell pictures to anyone. If I did, then all heck would break loose, but I don't allow it. People should get good shots of their kids. But there are bylaws the board needs to stand by. Good luck!

For the record they can keep their stinkin' hotdogs, I wasn't gonna buy 'em anyway. And now that this nice guy is offering pizza, I might as well try it. The hotdog dude wasn't gonna get my money anyway, and now that I know he's a total jerk he never will.

Yeah I'm just talking out my ass tonight (blame the pain medicine) but I think you're offering a different product. Never good to step on toes, but it's not like they're capturing action shots as well.

Good grief, I've written this post 3 different times. I don't want to step on any toes with this topic and it's going to be hard not too! Competition is always good for a check up from the neck up. Exclusive contracts don't always guarantee good results and maybe they need to remember that! Call me what you will, but I'm hoping that the board decides to allow you to shoot the games!

I shoot action shots for a softball team. They have a person who did the T&I photos for years. This year they asked me to do it, That may be what the Pro is worried about where you are because of the profit to be made with T&I. After they asked me, I suggested a digital memory mate with an action shot chosen by each kid. After an initial "we never did that" comment both the kid and parents thought it was refreshing to have something other than another posed shot. Only one parent still wanted a posed shot and when the kid saw her what her team mates got, her mom called me to say her daughter didn't like the pose and could I do anything.

We had picture trophies this year for both my sons and the coach asked me for a posed picture for each team member. I said no. I'd rather have an action shot. He didn't quite get it until I showed him the shots I got. The parents and coaches were thrilled. And I give them a CD with every picture that came out on it. They use that CD for their computer screens and love it. Every year they get the latest shots. If I sold them, I'd get paid a ton, but would have to go through the board. Not worth the fight for me, but if I was into this for money, there is money to be had. People cannot get the pictures we get with the high speed equipment. So, if you are hoping to get some money from it, I'd say talk to the board and really have a plan.

If you pulled your car out onto the track during the Indy 500, would you really expect to be allowed to race?

Photography is a business, and contracts are contracts. If you can do better than the pros, then bid against them. But, if you are by action violating a term of contract, then no amount of voting can validate that.

Contracts are put in place for a reason, same reason that you cannot walk into a factory and start making your own product with another company's machines and labor.

This is a competitive business, not just a hobby. Every parent thinks that they can do it better, in my experience, they only think so. It's the turn-around time, mailings, customer service, logistical support, etc that tend to bite them in the butt.

Now, if the contract says nothing about action shots, then you are in the clear and there is nothing anyone can do about it. But, if you are intrusive to business of photography that they are contracted to perform, then they may have a case.

"I can do it better" and "We will show them" and so on, will not change the fact that when you enter this arena, you are entering a business world, and a vicious one at that.

I can see two sides to this, one being a parent of baseball playing kids and I'd LOVE to have action shots of my kids because let's face it, the league's photographer ONLY takes those Posed photos (group shot, one with your child posing). However with that said, it's like Rabid said, you just don't go out onto that track of the Indy 500. I'm sure the pro photographers having that contract don't shoot action shots, but I think it would have been better had you sought league permission to do action shots if you are going to sell them. Otherwise just be a hobbyist, take action shots and not solicit.

Contracts are contracts why wouldn't you want to bid on the T&I that doesn't make sense?

I had already been approached by a board member on the 3rd day of shooting and he told me I had to get permission and I should call "so in so" at this number. So I did. And that guy told me "Danny I don't see a problem with what you're doing". So, I went back the next gameday and kept shooting.
Now, 2 weeks later... the complaints from the father-son pro studio has increased so today the board is calling a meeting to vote (and review the contract of the T&I shots).
Also, this field had a 3 day tourney about a month ago (before I starting shooting out there) and there was a company from out of town that got permission, set up a booth and offered action shots. I think they paid $1000 to do so.

Not sure if the local pro studio raised hell about that or not.

"I" have not taken in a single penny. And I have no booth. Parents can log on and view photos at my website the following day. Yes there is a shopping cart on the site, but like I said... no orders have come through yet.

Tigershark asked "why wouldn't you want to bid on the T&I?"

I have never done anything like that before. Fear of the unknown? I don't know the protocol of the paperwork, order placement envelopes, delivery protocol, nothing! I can devote about 4 hours per day to this (after my 8 to 5 day job) and I'm not sure if that's enough time to post process, place the orders, receive, organize, and deliver prints in a timely fashion. Would you all say "to heck with it, give it a try!" Or would you say "if you have no experience in the business 'how to', then you should not take on the task of shooting 250 kids"?

I just started working for a company who does head shots and team shots of local youth sports teams. If there were other parents taking pictures and giving them away, or selling them, I'd probably not get paid anything. You do have to consider that other people make a living from this as well and it can be hard work with a lot of other lives at stake. I'm not saying you shouldn't be allowed to take pictures, just that if someone else has been hired to do it, you need to respect that and try not to be in their way. If you get some shots that don't interfere with their's, go for it. Also, keep in mind there are a lot of people, like me, who are just getting started and these companies give us an opportunity to participate. If these people didn't exist, I'd have a much harder time learning and growing in my photography.

Did you consider trying to join forces with the "pros" who are shooting? They might need you to help. Never hurts to ask.

i would a gree tat a contract is a contract for the other guys. but that contract also is ONLY for the team photos. if their contract does not state for action photos then i don't see what the problem is

Mum2J&M wrote in post #5758824
I just started working for a company who does head shots and team shots of local youth sports teams. If there were other parents taking pictures and giving them away, or selling them, I'd probably not get paid anything. You do have to consider that other people make a living from this as well and it can be hard work with a lot of other lives at stake. I'm not saying you shouldn't be allowed to take pictures, just that if someone else has been hired to do it, you need to respect that and try not to be in their way. If you get some shots that don't interfere with their's, go for it. Also, keep in mind there are a lot of people, like me, who are just getting started and these companies give us an opportunity to participate. If these people didn't exist, I'd have a much harder time learning and growing in my photography.

Did you consider trying to join forces with the "pros" who are shooting? They might need you to help. Never hurts to ask.

Mum, with all due respect...this is a potential downfall of having a job that many people see as a hobby. In this case I would say that the people hired to do the work should respect the parents, and stay out of their way. The point of youth sports is youth sports, not a driver for the local economy.

I can understand if the company is upset that the OP is potentially selling images, but limiting the taking and free distribution of photographs at youth sporting events just seems a little overbearing. Should the OP be allowed to sell action shots, and would that breach the other company's contract...that is the question.

The only problem with "joining forces" with the hired pros is that the OP would possibly lose the right to distribute and display his images.

Let's throw a twist into this.

Let's say Snyper's son plays in this league and he is there as a father taking photos. During the games, he not only shoots his child but many of the others. He then takes and puts the photos on his site for sale. Is there an issue with this?

Another issue I have is the fact that this sounds like a public parks and rec league which are open to the public. Just because a professional company has the "rights" to take team photos does not mean they can prevent others from shooting, and profitting, for shots taken during the games.