Grid for AB standard large softbox?

So I have the Alien Bee's standard large softbox. It says their grids can only be used with the foldable ones. That's my next purchase, but is there something I can use in the mean time? I was shooting with my black backdrop today and I got a ton of spill that kept highlighting the backdrop.

(stupid mode on) you can use a grid with a soft box? Doesn't that defect the purpose?

tim wrote in post #5772522
(stupid mode on) you can use a grid with a soft box? Doesn't that defect the purpose?

No. It allows a soft light that's directed.

Interesting. I have a Photoflex Softbox and AB grids, the grids fit inside the reflector so I don't see why they'd have a problem with any soft box.

There's not enough velcro on the standard softbox to attach the grid. You might be able to 'make it work', but there's not a lot of extra velcro there.

My $.02

Where does velcro come into things? If you can fit your softbox over the standard reflector the grids should work fine I think. I haven't used mine in a while though and can't visualise it.

tim wrote in post #5773304
Where does velcro come into things? If you can fit your softbox over the standard reflector the grids should work fine I think. I haven't used mine in a while though and can't visualise it.

Tim,

The grids under discussion are grids that attach externally and directly on the softbox face. Not grids that attach to a reflector like gizmo in close proximity to the flash that you stuff inside the softbox.

Look at this.
http://www.samys.com …ct.php?ItemNo=P​HOTACGRIDL

But personally this concept of "directional" soft light is definately "by me".

If light is directional it is not soft. If it is soft is is not directional.

I can see how the grids might contain the light, but they are definately making the light more directional and less soft. Possibly the light is still soft enough, but the grid has to be making the light less soft.

I have several softboxes, some of them included a gid with the purchased package. I have never bothered using them.

This issue has come up before in this forum and many indicate the grids are just dandy.

But, I have never quite conceptually accepted pulling on the light in divergent directions (making it soft - making it directional) makes any sense.

Enjoy! Lon

Thanks Lon, interesting, and kinda odd. How about a softbox sized barn door instead? You might need an actual barn door...

"If light is directional it is not soft. If it is soft is is not directional."

Not True. They are not dependent on each other.

A standard grid that goes on a reflector does not affect the source it only affects the spill(or spread). It's the same with a softbox. You still get all the softness of the large light source. The grid just keeps it from flying all around your set.

Think of it like a tube of light. Grids focus the spread but the size of the light source is not affected by the grid. So with a softbox w/grid you still get soft shadows as well as controlled spill.

Huge barndoors on a softbox would not work because of weight. A grid is like a bunch of little barndoors but weighing much less.

Using grids on a sofbox does create a slightly harsher light as the entire surface of the external diffuser is no longer lighting the entire subject, just the parts of the diffuser that are visible through the grid.

Having said that, the light produced is still much softer than the light you get from honeycomb grids on small reflectors, and if you are pointing the softbox directly at your subject (i.e. not feathering it) the difference in light quality is pretty negligible.

That or could some one suggest a way to control spill some my black background is black?

smdevo wrote in post #5773792
"If light is directional it is not soft. If it is soft is is not directional."

Not True. They are not dependent on each other.

A standard grid that goes on a reflector does not affect the source it only affects the spill(or spread). It's the same with a softbox. You still get all the softness of the large light source. The grid just keeps it from flying all around your set.

I have a reasonable idea of the basic mechanics of light, definately not an expert, but not fooled by the concept of a how a grid works either.

Soft light and directional light are in direct opposition. Light with absolute direction would be light from a point source positioned an infinite distance away, light with maximum softness would be light from an infinite number of point sources all very close to the subject.

I also understand exactly how a well designed grid works

The black sides of the light columns absorb light. So only light that is traveling in a straight line, or nearly a straight line, and never touching the black sides ever makes it through the grid. This gives the light a very directional nature. Grids work by removing all the light that does not have a directional aspect.

I think a common perception is that an individual grid cell is like a water nozzle chiding the light to be directional. But this is a poor model. A water nozzle "trains" the water to become directional and all the water entering the nozzle, leaves the nozzle trained.

A grid is more like a sieve. It just removes the light that does not have a highly directional nature. It sifts out what does not conform, no "training" is involved.

The essential function of a grid is to make light directional.

I will stick by this statement:

"If light is directional it is not soft. If it is soft is is not directional."

Grids can control spill, but they will do so at the expense of softness. Again, the light may still be soft enough, but it will be less soft that with the grid removed.

The essence of making light soft is to remove its directional nature (as it is coming from many diffrent sources).

Enjoy! Lon

FlashZebra wrote in post #5775292
I understand how grids work.

The black sides of the light columns absorb light. So only light that is traveling in a straight line, or nearly a straight line makes it through the grid. THis gives the light a very directional nature.

The essential function of a grid is to make light directional.

I will stick by this statement:

"If light is directional it is not soft. If it is soft is is not directional."

Grids can control spill, but they will do so at the expense of softness. Aagin, the light may still be soft enough, but it will be less soft that with the grid removed.

The essence of making light soft is to remove its directional nature (as it is coming from many diffrent sources).

Enjoy! Lon

True. Snoot a soft box and you'll get a hard light....if that's possible at all.

Edit: You guys have still done a crappy job of helping me out here, I mean I pay you guys good money for quick answers. If I get service like this again, you can forget getting paid.

Ok I'll stick by my statement as well. "Not true. They are not dependent on each other".

You are thinking of soft light as scattered(non directional) light which is true. I am thinking of soft light as a large source, which is also true.

I understand that grids cut the ammount of light down by blocking off small bits throughout the light source but they do not affect the size of the source. This means that they do not affect softness.

"True. Snoot a soft box and you'll get a hard light....if that's possible at all."

Snoots reduce the size of the source to make it hard. If you put a huge snoot with a big opening on the end it is still a soft light with zero spill.

"You guys have still done a crappy job of helping me out here, I mean I pay you guys good money for quick answers. If I get service like this again, you can forget getting paid."

Use a flag. Make a shadow.

smdevo wrote in post #5777051
Ok I'll stick by my statement as well. "Not true. They are not dependent on each other".

You are thinking of soft light as scattered(non directional) light which is true. I am thinking of soft light as a large source, which is also true.

I understand that grids cut the ammount of light down by blocking off small bits throughout the light source but they do not affect the size of the source. This means that they do not affect softness.

"True. Snoot a soft box and you'll get a hard light....if that's possible at all."

Snoots reduce the size of the source to make it hard. If you put a huge snoot with a big opening on the end it is still a soft light with zero spill.

"You guys have still done a crappy job of helping me out here, I mean I pay you guys good money for quick answers. If I get service like this again, you can forget getting paid."

Use a flag. Make a shadow.

The light would be hard as you're making th light source smaller. Snooting a softbox would not give you soft light, it would just decrease the effectiveness of the light's power level. You should get the same exact light as a snooted light with no soft box, just a lot less powerful because of the obstructions.