What to do when everyone wants a copy?

Hi all, just joined up (having FINALLY got the rather obscure 6-digit image verification code right! What is that, some kind of visual initiation test?!) Looks like there's tons of useful info. on here and I look forwards to exploring...nice one!

OK so my question is this: over the past year I've gone from keen amateur to semi-professional, taking photos at my own parties to mates' events to corporate events. I've been charging a flat day rate (around £50/hr) and usually upload images to the client's FTP site - job done.

Recently however, especially as I've been getting to know some of these people well as repeat clients and becoming one of the crew more, I find myself being asked by the venue manager if they can have copies, or the entertainers, or other suppliers at the event...etc. At first I didn't mind when the events were low-key but as the clients are getting sonewhat swankier, wonder if I should be charging them, especially if they are going to be used in promotional/advertisin​g material? It can also take a fair amount of my time having to sort and send them. However I get the impression people think if you have already been paid once for the job it's OK for them to have a copy too. Is that the norm? It's awkward when they ask in front of the client too. Any advice on professional protocol over this please? How best to handle such a situation? What you would charge? Thank you!

First off, welcome!

This is one of the pitfalls of not charging for the images from the beginning. Even at $50 an hour, if you look all all your costs, you'd be lucky if you are making $15 an hour. Having people asking for more and more, just eats into the profit as you are experiencing now.

The first thing to do is next time someone presents you with a similar opportunity, your rate should be about double if you can deliver good images. You should also make it clear to the client that the images are for their use only. You could make them available through you to third parties, but should also make it clear to the client that you intend to do so.

Use one of the sites that allow you to sell images directly on-line, where you create a gallery, set print prices, and people can order directly from there. Then go to VistaPrint and get the very basic fee business cards (although be careful not to accidently sign up for the other monthly fee services). The cards should be setup to point people to that website where they can order your prints. Leave a space so you can write in the event name of that specific gallery.

Then when people approach you and ask for copies, smile, say sure, and give them the card with the event name written on it. They will go on-line, and if they really want the images, they will buy them. If they ask about the costs, tell them that because the client has already paid for the time to create the images, you only need to recoup the cost of processing, sorting, uploading, creating CD's, archiving, etc, but that allows you to sell those prints at 1/2 your normal rate. This lets them know there is additional time and expense in making more images available, makes them feel they are still getting a break with the discount, and gets you out of saying no, and out fo the ordering and fulfillment loop.

People have a habit of asking for something that's free, even if they may not really want it. As a person in business, you need to learn how to say no gracefully, and present it in such a way that the client sees there is extra work involved, you aren't working for free, and that there is a carrot for him too (discount).

The best part is if they do order, you have very little to do. The hosting service will print the images, collect payment, and deliver the prints to the buyer. They will then cut your a check at the end of the month.

This gets you out of having to say no, presents them with the option of buy when they are actually looking at the images, and puts all the overhead on the service company.

Hi SFaust - thanks!

Yes, sounds like these online galleries are one way round it, I'll have a look into them...

I know what you mean about not charging from the beginning but it's difficult when you slip into a professional role sort of by accident through the back door, so to speak and not with a conscious intention! Now I'm having to learn how and where to draw the lines and the protocols of professional conduct so I appreciate your good advice and experience - cheers!

Would just like to add that, at £50 per hour, the OP is actually asking for the "double the $50 per hour" that you're suggesting, SFaust.

Apart from that, your advice looks excellent

I completely understand. The same thing happened to me many moons ago. When when I finally decided to go full time, I found none of my clients stuck around when I started charging the rates I needed to in order to survive. So I had to re-build my client base.

Keep working the rates up with every new job. Watch what your 'real' costs are, and make sure you are charging enough to make a profit.

And yea, learn to say no! Just because I want a new Mercedes, doesn't mean the dealer should sell it to me below his normal prices.

If they raise the old but a print only costs .15 cents. Ask them why they are paying $2.00 for a cup of coffee if it's 99% water! Could it be the service, the overhead, advertising costs, building lease, cost of labor, insurance.... nah, couldn't be

sfaust wrote in post #5804243
And yea, learn to say no! Just because I want a new Mercedes, doesn't mean the dealer should sell it to me below his normal prices.

I agree with everything Stephen has said, except the learning to say no!

My brother is a superb salesman, and he has told me many times that the art of sales is learning how to say YES! Because virtually anything is possible if the price is right.

So if I go into a Mercedes dealership and ask to by an "S Class" for $200 monthly payments, the smart salesman will say "You bet!" Of course, later I will find that requires a $50,000 down payment, but he didn't say no and I'm still sitting there lusting over that new car.

That is the beauty of the web photo shopping site. You get to say, "Sure, I will post it to the web site!"

sfaust wrote in post #5803962
Use one of the sites that allow you to sell images directly on-line....

Good idea, but if that seems like a little too much effort for your situation, when they ask if they can have a copy, just say "Sure, let me have your email address." Then later, send them an email with the prices for whatever you want to offer.

I give prints to venues, and it's gotten me work in the past (weddings). If you think giving a print will get you work then give it to them, if you think it's purely for their benefit charge them commercial rates.

hommedars wrote in post #5804400
I agree with everything Stephen has said, except the learning to say no!

My brother is a superb salesman, and he has told me many times that the art of sales is learning how to say YES! Because virtually anything is possible if the price is right.

So if I go into a Mercedes dealership and ask to by an "S Class" for $200 monthly payments, the smart salesman will say "You bet!" Of course, later I will find that requires a $50,000 down payment, but he didn't say no and I'm still sitting there lusting over that new car.

That is the beauty of the web photo shopping site. You get to say, "Sure, I will post it to the web site!"

That is was I was suggesting. Rather than say no, they can't have free images. Instead say yes, here is the website were you can get the images, and make the images available at a cost. At least when the person is confronted with costs, they will also be looking at the images. If they images are good, they are in a perfect position to buy.

When I mean say no, its when they ask for the images for free, where even the Mercedes salesman will say "No", and maybe even follow up with "are you nuts? Joking? what??". When people ask for stuff below your costs, there usually is very little reason to say yes.

hommedars wrote in post #5804493
Good idea, but if that seems like a little too much effort for your situation, when they ask if they can have a copy, just say "Sure, let me have your email address." Then later, send them an email with the prices for whatever you want to offer.

There is very little work with setting up a web gallery with prices. You sign up, set your blanket pricing, then just upload the images after you shoot. It can be uploading while you eat dinner, so there is very little overhead involved.

If you just send them an e-mail with prices, how will they see the images. If they don't see the images, the changes they will order anything is slim. If you need to up.load the images anyway so the buyer can see what the images look like, you are already putting in more effort that just using a pre-built service.

I strongly feel that if the images are good, they are looking at them right then and there, with a 'click to buy' button inches away, they are far more likely to make an order. Make it any harder, and the changes go down drastically.

So why not stack the deck in your favor. It probably takes less than an hour to sign up with a site, set default pricing, and be ready for uploads. After that, its a simple upload for each event. If you are doing multiple events each year, the overhead is trivial compared to handling handing the order and delivery process yourself.

Links to most of the sites:
Online orders question

This is the most agonizing business leap. I did it this spring signing up with Smugmug so people can order for themselves. The feedback has been positive and I don't have to do anything but upload the images when processed. You still can give some away for advertising, but if you want to be paid for the work, you should charge, and Smugmug is great about setting your own prices. If you don't feel like charging $8 for a 4x6, set it at $2. It's great.