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Thread started 02 Jul 2008 (Wednesday) 01:06
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First real job

 
capturedbybrooks
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Jul 02, 2008 01:06 |  #1

Hey guys, I'm pretty new to photography, and am just beginning to collect all the necessary equipment to do professional shoots. I am also going to be starting my own business and have just been asked by the company i work for to do the photography for the company Christmas party. It will be school picture type job, people coming in the door, walking to the photo area, i will take a few shots, then they go have fun... I want to accept this job, but i have NO IDEA what i need to do to prepare, i want to give people options to buy photo packets (or bundles), I've done a lot of research on how to do the prints, and I am pretty efficient with the retouching. I guess my question is what i need to do to prepare? Legally, prices for the work, and so on, i want to give good prices, discounted a bit to give those i work with a break for their Christmas pics. What am i getting myself into?

Any info would be SO helpful!!

Thanks-

-Scott




  
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SuzyView
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Jul 02, 2008 09:51 |  #2

Scott, first off, Welcome.

I'm sorry no one posted a reply right away. Your question comes up a lot: someone new to photography and asked to do a pro's job right off, even if it is 6 months away. Some here have been shooting events for years, and I for one, am amazed you think this is going to be easy.

Gear, what gear do you have now? What are you planning to get? Do you have nothing, and have to get everything in about 5 month? I know I have lights, light stands, umbrellas, reflectors, frames, backdrops, etc. It's a collection from years of shooting. Also, you need really great camera gear that is not just pull the trigger at Amazon and get it working right out of the boxes. You have to know what gear you need for the work you are doing. How much money are you willing to start out with? For what you are doing, just gear alone would be around $5K-15K. I would recommend a 5D with 85 1.2 and that would cost around $4000.

That being said, you also need to know the software for PP, and on the fly, right at the event or even after, you're going to PP a ton of pictures. How much time are you spending for that? And if you are earning money, we're talking learning about taxes and business insurance, etc.

You said you want info, read the stickys first, then you can see how this works. Then give us a clue about the gear you have and what you are planning to buy. We cannot invent the wheel for you. So, post where you are at and the level you are in shooting.

I shoot with 2 camera bodies, 7 lenses, been doing it for 6 years (ex.).


Suzie - Still Speaking Canonese!
RF6 Mii, 5DIV, SONY a7iii, 7D2, G12, 6 L's & 2 Primes, 25 bags.
My children and grandchildren are the reason, but it's the passion that drives me to get the perfect image of everything.

  
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capturedbybrooks
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Jul 02, 2008 10:16 as a reply to  @ SuzyView's post |  #3

Thanks for being so honest about it! I am new, and i don't have a whole lot, which was explained at the time they asked me, i was up front and told the person who made the offer "Look, im not a professional, I don't have all the professional studio lighting, so the pictures will not be 'professional studio quality'" that part was understood, anyways, what i would be using for this-

I'd be shooting with a Nikon D200, and to get the lighting right without having all needed equipment, I was planning to use a Gary Fong lightsphere kit with on an SB-600 flash unit (which i am fully aware wont make up for the needed lighting fixtures, but they have worked surprisingly well for me before). I'd set up a backdrop for it of course.

And i had no dreams of this being a simple, "ok let me push the button a couple times, here's some prints, fork over the cash plzkthx bye!" I know its going to be a rough trip to get there, but for me it's a way to make the money i need, in order to start getting the studio lighting and other equipment for future shoots.

So yeah, let me know if you need more info about what i have to use for the shoot.


Thanks so much!!
Scott!

(PS. when i say im new to photography, i mean new to the business world of it, I have experience behind a camera of course, i just have not yet done any paid jobs like this)




  
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SuzyView
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Jul 02, 2008 10:21 |  #4

We all start somewhere, Scott. So, don't apologize for that.

I guess now that you have a plan, practice is what you need. Set up at the venue and really work it. The D200 is a great camera and my own niece shoots with it and she is a semi-pro in UT. Her shots are excellent and I still love her for not having a Canon. :) Get the pp and workflow down, after you practice and then decide if you're in it for big bucks or helping people out. A sheet to print is about $2 for me, and I charge $12/page for senior shots, which covers my costs, that's it. I think you can start there.


Suzie - Still Speaking Canonese!
RF6 Mii, 5DIV, SONY a7iii, 7D2, G12, 6 L's & 2 Primes, 25 bags.
My children and grandchildren are the reason, but it's the passion that drives me to get the perfect image of everything.

  
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capturedbybrooks
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Jul 02, 2008 12:53 as a reply to  @ SuzyView's post |  #5

Thanks!! Oh, and im not sure what all the abbreviations are like "PP" and what not, is that just the editing and retouching? and also the numbers for your lighting equipment... i guess thats the learning part for me hehe.




  
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SuzyView
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Jul 02, 2008 13:13 |  #6

PP is for post processing, any time you take the images and adjust them to print or post. Workflow is the whole process of getting the images to getting them out. For a pro, workflow is very important because time is money.

I use 3 Speedlites, 580, 550, 430 with either 2 large umbrellas (all white with covers), 3 lightboxes (the Ezybox is amazing).


Suzie - Still Speaking Canonese!
RF6 Mii, 5DIV, SONY a7iii, 7D2, G12, 6 L's & 2 Primes, 25 bags.
My children and grandchildren are the reason, but it's the passion that drives me to get the perfect image of everything.

  
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capturedbybrooks
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Jul 02, 2008 13:21 as a reply to  @ SuzyView's post |  #7

Wow, i am so excited, photography is my passion, and it's all coming together!! The cost of equipment always makes my head spin though, I've seen it over and over, but every time i look again, im like.... AHHHH!!! Haha

Thanks for the clarifying!

-Scott




  
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amfoto1
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Jul 02, 2008 15:31 |  #8

Hi Scott,

Good advice so far, but I think you might explore some other options.

First, look into renting studio lighting. The SB-200 and Fong attachment really won't cut it for the "formal" shots. Pro shops in many cities have at least basic lighting kits available to rent. If you don't know of any in your area, call any local pro shooters... They will likely know who offers rentals.

If you go the rental route, you will need at least two lights (three if you need to light a background) with either umbrellas or softboxes, stands and a flash meter. Also, be sure to rent the stuff for a couple days in advance and practice using it, so you can set up quickly and feel comfortable doing the job when the time comes. The rental shop can probably give you a quick lesson how to use the equipment, but you really should practice with it a little.

You might research basic studio lighting, to get a good idea how it works. You can probably find a lot of info online, or perhaps some books in the library or off of Amazon.com, etc. Keep it simple, though. And, check your camera manual. Likely you will need to use a slower sync speed with studio strobes, than you are able to use with portable flash. A friend of mine uses D200/D300 and we have done some shoots with my location lighting kit where we both used 1/160 without any problems, although both our cameras flash sync is 1/250.

Next, talk some more to your company. For one, in most cases like this the company might pay for a "commemorative shot" of each couple. Beyond that, you might have some additional sales, but I wouldn't count on much. The best way to make additional sales is on the spot, with on site printing and an assistant. But, that's involved and costly.

You might also do some walk-around/candid shots during the event. You can post all the shots online for people to visit and view after the fact But, honestly, if you don't do on-site printing and sales you miss all the "impulse buyers" and will likely only see a smattering of sales online. Still, if you aspire to shoot events, you need to learn to do this. You will need to have your online gallery set up in advance, so that you can print up business cards to hand out. Also try to get everyones' email address, so you can send out notifications of the images being posted.

Be sure to get shots of any awards being handed out and handshakes, too. For walk-around/candid shots and any award presentations, you will need your portable flash (best if used on a flash bracket off-camera, and don't try bouncing if the ceiling is high or any dark or odd color).

The company might also want a commemorative album of the event. Or, they might want you to make some enlargements and post them somewhere to share in the offices. Or, they might want to license some of your photos for use in an annual report, or for use on their website, or to send out with press releases, or for other promotional purposes These would be extras you could charge something for, if you can come to an agreemen.

And, the company might be able to help out in terms of the backdrop. Many have a banner and/or booth used at trade shows, which might be useful at the event. Also scout the location, there may be an ideal set up. If it's a hotel or restaurant, you need to talk to them anyway, well in advance, to arrange setting up and getting access to electricity, etc.

I have to disagree with Suzie about the need for a 5D and an 85/1.2L. Those might be the ideal tools for the job, but you can do a darned good job with just about any of the recent D-SLRs... In the right hands, any digital Rebel or D40 would be quite capable. Most likely, you will be printing 5x7 or 8x10 photos. Even a 6MP camera can handle that.

Lenses are more important than the camera. But, again, you don't have to break the bank. Personally I prefer to use primes for this type of shooting, and for a crop sensor camera like yours, I prefer to use 50/1.4 and 85/1.8 for most portraiture, and occasionally 28/1.8 for group shots. At times I use 24-70/2.8. In part, what you use will be dictated by how much room you have to work. You do have to avoid wider lenses and longer teles, both of which can cause unattractive exaggeration effects in portraits (especially wide angles used too close).

A couple other things:

How will you get the printing done? You might just look for local low cost source, depending upon the company's expectations (and willingness to foot the bill). Or, you might use an online source yourself, have the batch sent to you, then package and resend them to the participants.

For this you might want to buy presentation folders/mats for the prints, and may need envelopes to ship with as well. Plus there is the cost of postage to consider. However, you also might be able to distribute the finished images at work (or get the company to mail them out).

It it's a large company, and there are a lot of people you don't know, one suggestion is to get a list of attendees and write image file numbers next to each one when you shoot them. Another is to use a small white board with dry markers and write their names on that, then do a quick "mug shot" with them to help you recognize them in the images later on.

Now, presumably you want to make some modest profit off any online print sales. That might mean setting up a "pro" account, or whatever they call it, someplace like SmugMug, Printroom.com, etc. I don't know what it costs on SmugMug, but my Printroom account costs me $99 a year.

Finally, coordinate with the company on one more thing. They will likely have a "reception" table at the entry. Make sure that the people working there are told to direct everyone your way, to insure that everyone is photographed. Some will balk and be reluctant, it's up to you to make it fun and "painless". Take several shots of each couple, more only if they want it. Be prepared to take shots of two or three couples, who want a larger "group" shot.

My experiences with this sort of thing are that you can expect relatively few sales to the participants. The only way to make any money on it is to get the company to pay a set fee for the job. That would be determined by how many couples you will be shooting, total, times so much per 5x7 (one print per couple to be provided, at no charge, by the company), plus the cost of rental equipment.

Now, to be even more brutally honest about it, in today's economy many companies are cutting out all costs of exactly this sort. If they were to ask me to shoot it "speculatively", no up front agreed fees and based upon sales to the participants only, I'd probably turn the job down. I suspect there just wouldn't be enough sales to participants to make it worth my while.

Personally I will only take on a "speculative" shoot that's predicated upon sales to the participants as a key source of revenues if there is some after-market potential for the images, such as fine art or stock sales. There simply aren't many opportunities to "leverage" the work from most company parties like this. But, you might want to tackle it anyway "for the experience".

I use a pair of Canon 30Ds and a 10D as backup (a pair of EOS3s for film don't see much use any more), lenses I use most for this sort of thing are noted above (I have a number of others for other purposes), three 550EX strobes with a compact battery pack to speed up recycling for this sort of thing (I have others for other purposes).

My location lighting kit consists of five Norman 320ws monolights, two 60" convertible umbrellas, three 45" convertible umbrellas, several Photoflex light stands and one JTL boom stand, a 10 foot wide Savage backdrop system with several rolls of seamless parper and clotn, and two Minolta incidence flash meters (very important!), lots of extension cords, gaffer tape, "lint/pet hair" rollers, extra flash tubes, spare modeling lights, fuses, batteries, etc. etc.

Believe it or not, it all fits into one, big (heavy!) roller case, except for the JTL boom which has it's own separate bag.

Most often I set up two of the lights pointed into one of the big umbrellas as my main light (using a bracket I made to allow the double setup), one pointed into the other big umbrella as my fill light. I have the option with these umbrellas to use them as "shoot through" diffusers instead, turning the lights around and pointing them at the subjects instead. This I will do when I need more power, due to larger area of coverage or larger groups to shoot.

The boom gets a fourth monolight on it, mounted high above and behind the subjects to illuminate the backdrop. Depending upon what's back there, and how far away from the subjects it is, I'll set that up with barn doors and/or a light grid, or a small umbrella or even a shoot-through umbrella. It can serve to both illuminate the backdrop and as a hair light, depending upon what effect is needed. Getting the light on the boom right is one of the trickier parts of this lighting setup. But, without it the two lights from in front of the subjects can cast heavy shadows. That's especially important if the background is light colored, of course.

I also have a few simple flashes, a couple old Sunpaks 333 and Vivitar 285s and 2500s. These can be set up low and behind the subjects, if needed, with a simple "peanut" slave.

Another little trick... Usually I try to keep the lights close enough to the subject I can set them to half or even 1/4 power. That's one reason I ganged two into one umbrella. By setting all the lights to partial output, they recycle a lot faster.

Radio triggering would be ideal, but I still use a sync cord to one of the strobes, the others are set as optical slaves. Oh, and if you use a sync cord, be sure to have spares on hand. I spent the money for a much better one from Paramount Cords, but have probably a half dozen extras "just in case". I don't know why, but sync cords seem to be the first thing to cause problems with a lighting setup. Still, I'd need 5 or 6 radio transceivers and haven't been able to justify the extra cost... I simply don't do all that much location shooting with this setup.

Using a sync cord and optical slaves only gets me in trouble occasionally. At a recent event someone repeatedly grabbed shots over my shoulder (Dammit I hate that!) and her flash kept firing all my slaved monolights. She had a real knack for firing just as I was pressing the shutter release, so I got more than a few shots where all my slaved lights were mis-timed or hadn't fully recycled. I finally asked her to knock it off and she did.

A final suggestion. Get there early and set up. Test everything. Then mark with tape on the floor where you want people to stand. This way it's just a matter of getting them posed a little, and taking your shots. Quick and efficient. They'll be more cooperative that way.

At this point, I think you mostly need to explore your options with rentals, talk some more with the company to see what they want and how you might get compensated and go scout the location. Once you have determined more exactly what's wanted and what you will need to rent, order and buy, you will be in a position to put together a written quote and a contract with the company. Since it sounds like you aspire to shoot professionally, the sooner you get used to doing this, the better.

Hope this helps!


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capturedbybrooks
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Jul 02, 2008 16:44 as a reply to  @ amfoto1's post |  #9

WOW!!
That was amazing, and super helpful!! Thanks so much for the info, i feel like im armed a little better with the best route to go... Im gonna see if i can talk to the company about if they want a disk, or prints, or how they want the photos, talk price with them, and find what they are willing to budget for this, then look at my costs, and write the quote... I'm super excited now!!
THANKS!!!




  
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PhotosGuy
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Jul 03, 2008 08:49 |  #10

I'm glad that this isn't one of those, "HELP! I have this job tonight & I don't know what I'm doing!" threads? :D

Some reading:
Tips for Xmas Ball Please


FrankC - 20D, RAW, Manual everything...
Classic Carz, Racing, Air Show, Flowers.
Find the light... A few Car Lighting Tips, and MOVE YOUR FEET!
Have you thought about making your own book? // Need an exposure crutch?
New Image Size Limits: Image must not exceed 1600 pixels on any side.

  
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capturedbybrooks
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Jul 03, 2008 10:08 as a reply to  @ PhotosGuy's post |  #11

Thanks!! I will definitely be reading, and re-reading that to make sure i get everything i can out of it!

I feel like im making progress toward a good end result!!

P.S. (I just remembered my b-day comes up about 3 months prior to this event, i've decided to ask to fam to go the money route so i can get some studio lighting with it!! Hehehehe)




  
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scorpio_e
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Jul 03, 2008 11:01 |  #12

You will need an assistant too. If you set and stand by your equipment, no one is going to have photos taken. I would have an assistant start directing people your way and then log their names: as the photos are being taken :)
You will have enough to worry about with the technical and posing decisions.


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Lonnie
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Jul 03, 2008 11:14 |  #13

You will have enough to worry about with the technical and posing decisions.

Posing is something else you will need to focus on when you prepare. Learning what poses look good and how to actually direct people into those poses takes a bit of research and practice.

I've shot a few weddings now as a second shooter, and learning how to effectively communicate with your subject is an important skill to learn. If you appear to be unsure of yourself or wishy-washy about what you are doing, I've found many people won't even have their picture taken. If you are politely telling them what to do, instead of asking, and seem sure of yourself, you can get people to do whatever you need to get the shot right.

Good luck on your shoot.


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capturedbybrooks
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Jul 03, 2008 16:16 as a reply to  @ Lonnie's post |  #14

My wife is starting the business with me, so she will be there to help with the direction, as well as with posing... but you're right, i need need need to do a ton of research on posing for this type of event, especially how to effectively make it look good, all the while doing it quicly and efficiently enough to move the line forward (provided i have a line!! hahaha)

Thanks!!




  
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