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FORUMS General Gear Talk Flash and Studio Lighting 
Thread started 03 Jul 2008 (Thursday) 10:18
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The optical trigger that could(n't)

 
TMR ­ Design
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Jul 03, 2008 10:18 |  #1

I had a very interesting lesson in the use of optical slave triggers on my last outdoor shoot.

I use Elinchrom D-Lite's and although I think I can safely assume that most, or all optical triggers are the same, I won't make that assumption and I'll only speak in terms of the optical trigger found on the D-Lite's.

Like most strobes with a built in optical trigger, you can find it on the back panel and is a half dome, with a sensor that 'sees' 180 degrees from front to back and 360 degrees from top to bottom.

I've always used strobes in the studio and I can only recall one or two times that the trigger would not work because it was being blocked. Generally speaking, as long as there are no gobos or modifiers shielding the optical slave it works flawlessly, but I never really thought about how it would work, or if it would work outside.

Well, it does work but there is one big issue that comes into play. The optical triggers are not actually all that sensitive in an outdoor situation because what I hadn't considered was that a good part of what makes those triggers seem sensitive is the fact that they rely heavily on the light that bounces and reflects off other surfaces and not just on the incident light that falls on it.

Once you remove the walls and ceiling it's as if you've turned the sensitivity way down or disabled the trigger. I discovered this while setting up for an outdoor shoot. What was so amazing was that with the main and fill lights about 10 feet apart, I could only get the slave to fire when the dome was directly facing the main with the main on full power. Even angling the strobe slightly killed the trigger.

So. in an attempt to do some testing I cupped my hand over the far side of the dome so the pop from the main light would be contained and bounce off my hand and back to the sensor. Sure enough it worked!!!

The only thing I could find to use as a shield was the black sleeve from a softbox. I folded it over a few times, created a reflector-like shield and taped it in position. After doing that I could move the strobe around, angle it, and do just about anything I would normally do and still have a functioning trigger.

If you've ever tried to use your strobes outside and had this problem then give the reflector a try and you'll find that your triggers work fine and you don't have to break out the sync cables, or run out and buy another Pocket Wizard or radio receiver.......... yet. ;)

Just thought I'd pass on this tip. :D


Robert
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Rudeofus
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Jul 03, 2008 10:25 |  #2

Well, could this shield you made just have blocked off the sun light from hitting your slave sensor? You realize that sun light is brighter than what your flash puts out ...

So what you've done is most likely not amplified the signal from your flash but attenuated ambient light ...


Discovery is not accidental. We discover only when we make ourselves ready to receive and photographers seek discovery by mastering their craft. But it begins somewhere else. It begins with daisies, kids, awful scenes, falling in love, or growing old. It begins with that which matters to you. And it ends with visual statements that express what matters to you about these things. It is not sight the camera satisfies so thoroughly, but the mind. - Christian Molidor

  
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m3rdpwr
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Jul 03, 2008 10:40 as a reply to  @ Rudeofus's post |  #3

You know, I think I read something that some did similar.

Using a half of a half rounded object.

They may have even lined it with something.

Do you plan on buying triggers regardless?

I believe you may have been a former PCB owner and there new RF Triggers seem to be getting some good reviews. And he seems to be improving them more. (I don't own PCB, do I don't know first hand.)

I think I'm hiding inside because I have all 580EX/EX ii flashes and don't want to deal with all the hoopla' and expense of PW's, RadioPoppers, etc.

-Mario


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breal101
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Jul 03, 2008 10:42 |  #4

Robert, my Balcar flash has a little reflector built in to do just what you are talking about. It is on the pack not the head but does the same thing. Sunlight does affect the slave, some of them had a sensitivity switch. I don't use monolights but if I did I would have a piece of foil with me to make a reflector. Ughhh, maybe not so good a solution for you though since I know how you feel about tape. :):)


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Jul 03, 2008 10:46 |  #5

Rudeofus wrote in post #5841712 (external link)
Well, could this shield you made just have blocked off the sun light from hitting your slave sensor? You realize that sun light is brighter than what your flash puts out ...

So what you've done is most likely not amplified the signal from your flash but attenuated ambient light ...

Could be... or a combination of both. I think it's more a case of reflecting some light back to the sensor because I shot from later afternoon strong sun until early evening with the sun almost down and at the end of the day I still needed the shield to get consistent results. But I was looking for a quick solution and didn't have a chance to do any scientific testing so I can't say for sure. Either way the fix works.


Robert
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Jul 03, 2008 10:47 |  #6

m3rdpwr wrote in post #5841816 (external link)
You know, I think I read something that some did similar.

Using a half of a half rounded object.

They may have even lined it with something.

Do you plan on buying triggers regardless?

I believe you may have been a former PCB owner and there new RF Triggers seem to be getting some good reviews. And he seems to be improving them more. (I don't own PCB, do I don't know first hand.)

I think I'm hiding inside because I have all 580EX/EX ii flashes and don't want to deal with all the hoopla' and expense of PW's, RadioPoppers, etc.

-Mario

Hi Mario,

Yes, I was a former PCB user but no longer. I also use Pocket Wizards and my third PW is on the way but I didn't have it in time for the shoot.


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Jul 03, 2008 10:49 |  #7

breal101 wrote in post #5841829 (external link)
Robert, my Balcar flash has a little reflector built in to do just what you are talking about. It is on the pack not the head but does the same thing. Sunlight does affect the slave, some of them had a sensitivity switch. I don't use monolights but if I did I would have a piece of foil with me to make a reflector. Ughhh, maybe not so good a solution for you though since I know how you feel about tape. :):)

Ahh I didn't realize some strobes had the reflector or a sensitivity switch but it makes sense.

I'm fine with temporary tape that leaves no residue.. just not permanently taping things to my gear. Temporarily I took some fun foam, made a snoot-like tube and used an A-clamp to hold it around the body of the strobe.


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Rudeofus
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Jul 03, 2008 10:53 |  #8

TMR Design wrote in post #5841861 (external link)
Could be... or a combination of both. I think it's more a case of reflecting some light back to the sensor because I shot from later afternoon strong sun until early evening with the sun almost down and at the end of the day I still needed the shield to get consistent results. But I was looking for a quick solution and didn't have a chance to do any scientific testing so I can't say for sure. Either way the fix works.

In the evening the sun is weaker but it's also more likely to hit the light sensor directly and frontally. But as you mentioned - it's probably a combination of both effects. The easiest way to find out it trying the same thing at night (so sun light at all).


Discovery is not accidental. We discover only when we make ourselves ready to receive and photographers seek discovery by mastering their craft. But it begins somewhere else. It begins with daisies, kids, awful scenes, falling in love, or growing old. It begins with that which matters to you. And it ends with visual statements that express what matters to you about these things. It is not sight the camera satisfies so thoroughly, but the mind. - Christian Molidor

  
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Zansho
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Jul 03, 2008 11:06 |  #9

/grumble I had an optical slave for an outdoor shoot, but it wouldn't work. Now I know why lol. I'll keep this in mind for the next time I use the slave.


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Jul 03, 2008 11:12 |  #10

Rudeofus wrote in post #5841915 (external link)
In the evening the sun is weaker but it's also more likely to hit the light sensor directly and frontally. But as you mentioned - it's probably a combination of both effects. The easiest way to find out it trying the same thing at night (so sun light at all).

It is a combination of both. Even when it's dark out, if the triggering light can't get to the optical sensor, the slave is not going to fire. So you'd need to either position the slave so that it can see the "master" directly or use something to bounce the light off of it towards the optical sensor. And, during the daytime, if the sun is shining brightly on the sensor, the master may not be able to trigger the slave even when pointed directly at the sensor. What's triggering the optical sensor is a sudden change in the amount of light hitting it. If you were to completely cover the sensor with your cupped hand and then suddenly remove your hand, chances are good that that will also trigger the slave. :)


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breal101
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Jul 03, 2008 11:15 |  #11

TMR Design wrote in post #5841891 (external link)
Ahh I didn't realize some strobes had the reflector or a sensitivity switch but it makes sense.

I'm fine with temporary tape that leaves no residue.. just not permanently taping things to my gear. Temporarily I took some fun foam, made a snoot-like tube and used an A-clamp to hold it around the body of the strobe.

Anything that works is a great solution, improv is the mark of a true professional. That's why they pay us the big bucks. :lol:


"Try to go out empty and let your images fill you up." Jay Maisel

  
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pepperoni
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Jul 03, 2008 11:19 |  #12

TMR Design wrote in post #5841874 (external link)
I also use Pocket Wizards and my third PW is on the way but I didn't have it in time for the shoot.

^ Good thing you posted this.
I was gonna tell you to go spend some money on PW's so you wouldn't have to worry about stuff like this any more. :cool:


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Jul 03, 2008 11:35 |  #13

pepperoni wrote in post #5842090 (external link)
^ Good thing you posted this.
I was gonna tell you to go spend some money on PW's so you wouldn't have to worry about stuff like this any more. :cool:

Exactly. I have one (my third one) on the way but didn't even think about the optical trigger when I went out that day. I was glad I had a working solution that day but I'm a devoted PW user. I love them and they have NEVER misfired or not fired unless the battery was low. I rely on them and they just work.. anywhere, all the time.


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breal101
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Jul 03, 2008 11:40 |  #14

Like anything, PWs can fail, it's always good to have a back up plan.


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Jul 03, 2008 11:47 as a reply to  @ breal101's post |  #15

I always have a backup plan. I wasn't trying to say they can't or don't fail.. just that as long as they are working they are consistent an reliable.

The portable kit is still coming together. I do always carry sync cables but normally I've been working indoors and the length's of those cables work fine. Outdoors I do need to make a set of long sync cables just to cover my butt in the event of a PW failure.


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The optical trigger that could(n't)
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